The Rolling Jubilee

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by Hasbinlulz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

we're coming for you stupid uncle tom motherfuckers first.

Assuming 'we're' is from the perspective of your fellow peasants... in that case I find your impotent buttrage amusing.

There are some profound cultural characteristics more prevalent among the impoverished; substance abuse, incarceration, anti-intellectualism, and unplanned parenthood. The causality is unclear, whether poverty is conducive to being a fuckup, or fuckups end up in poverty. Academia leans toward the first one but I think it's a bit of both.

And yes we're all peasants under the financial oligarchy, but it's ignorant to think that makes us the same.

[Pico]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are some profound cultural characteristics more prevalent among the impoverished; substance abuse, incarceration, anti-intellectualism, and unplanned parenthood. The causality is unclear, whether poverty is conducive to being a fuckup, or fuckups end up in poverty. Academia leans toward the first one but I think it's a bit of both.

hmm it's almost as if poor dum ppl will be bad parents and raise their kids to be poor dum ppl.

if only some institution existed that, when properly funded, could mitigate this

hmm nope fuk the poor they deserve to live in squalor third world conditions, and so do their kids, and their unborn grandkids, etc

[Hitchens]

I've read Hayek's the Road to Serfdom and I've read Friedman's Free to Choose. Great books, I consider the lessons contained in these books to be corner stones of personal responsibility and maturity.

But that's all they are. They are not blueprints for an urban society. I very well may have learned those lessons in other ways.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by vaylorie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't pay cash for a house but I bought one that I can afford. There is a difference between what the bank approves you for and what you can afford. The bank told me I can 'afford' to take out a loan for about $600K but instead I took out a loan for a $250K house because thats what I can really 'afford' comfortably.

The banks were wrong to give people credit when they didn't deserve it (as seems like the case from your earlier post), but at the same time, if I'm signing on a line for a $250K debt, I'm going to be sure that I know what it is and that I can pay it. The vast majority of people that got 'taken advantage of' were blinded by the "I want it now" mentality and assumed debt that they had no realistic way to pay back. No matter who is telling you that it's going to be ok you still have a basic responsibility to understand what you are agreeing to.

It's not exactly correct to say that greedy lenders made someone lose their house. It would be correct to say that in some cases greedy lenders convinced stupid people to take on debt they couldn't afford. It would probably also be correct to say that in many cases, greedy people took on more debt than they can afford because they 'wanted' a bigger house than they could actually afford and were looking for excuses to be able to do it.

Outta curiosity, if you make 9$ / hr in a large city, where do you live without loans you cannot pay? Genuinely curious. Having 4 roommates at age 35 works in Friends, but it stunts actually having a life.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by vaylorie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what your saying is that ignorance negates responsibility?

I'm saying expecting financial wisdom from your average taco bell cash register worker is ignorant.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by dredge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm just a man, I'm not perfect.
I hope you guys never have to bite off more than you can swallow.
I hope you never find yourself unemployed with a $1340 a month mortgage, in a city like Detroit where NO one is hiring anything other than minimum wage and there's 2000 resumes for every position.
I hope you never find your $155k home you bought 5 years ago only worth $64k.
I hope you never find yourself without insurance, in the hospital needing a surgery.

Damn, should have had an emergency fund, why didn't I think of that?

You should probably just sell some stock to lower your debts. Damn.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by vaylorie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You guys are right. This was big business and capitalism that caused all of his problems. He was a victim of the system and it wasn't his fault.

He's made decisions based on past information, how things worked previously (get job, buy house, work hard--it's important to realize he was capable of paying for the house when he signed). He got sidelined by unforseeable things (illness, layoffs due to economic problems he most likely did not cause). And now he's getting fucked by a system that doesn't really provide a way out except to go be homeless with the rest of Detroit. Really.

[vaylorie]

Originally Posted by HeallunRumblebelly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He's made decisions based on past information, how things worked previously (get job, buy house, work hard--it's important to realize he was capable of paying for the house when he signed). He got sidelined by unforseeable things (illness, layoffs due to economic problems he most likely did not cause). And now he's getting fucked by a system that doesn't really provide a way out except to go be homeless with the rest of Detroit. Really.

Taking on a debt that is about 45% of your gross annual income is not a result of how things worked previously. Even operating under the mentality that the asset will grow in value it is unbelievable to call this a good move based on the monthly cost vs. income. So no, he could not afford the house when he signed it.

Clearly this is the case as he then started racking up the credit card debt by (self-admittedly) being a 'dummy'. Again, this is not sidelined by unforeseeable things, this is poor decision making. Then taking out a second mortgage to pay your credit card debt, meaning that you are now putting your house on the line for that stake dinner that you ate 6 months ago. Again, not unforeseeable things.

At that point, finding yourself unemployed is likely unforeseeable. That being said, prior to the string of poor decision making, if it was a priority to have money set aside for an emergency fund, a layoff or unemployment situation is no longer a clusterfuck as a few people tried to mention before.

Illness is also unforeseeable, but the illness and job loss is not what caused all of these things to happen. Poor choices caused all of these things to happen. If, as you said, he was able to afford the house when he got it, that would be a different story but that's not the case.

A fundamental difference is that I see an unfortunate situation and say "wow, things could have been so much different if different choices were made" and view it as a learning experience. You look at the situation and say "wow, this guy worked hard and did the right thing but got shit on by things outside of his control, things could be so much different if the system wasn't so jacked up". From your perspective, there is no learning experience and no impetus to not make the same mistakes and find yourself in the same situation again since nothing that was done was wrong. This is a recipe for a miserable life. You are where you are today as a result of 5% Luck/Chance/Randomness and 95% the sum total of the decisions that you have made.

[vaylorie]

Originally Posted by HeallunRumblebelly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Outta curiosity, if you make 9$ / hr in a large city, where do you live without loans you cannot pay? Genuinely curious. Having 4 roommates at age 35 works in Friends, but it stunts actually having a life.

This is the point entirely. You do what it takes to make it. If you make $9 an hour you better be working 2 jobs and executing a plan to get out of your current situation (killing debt, budgeting, job training or education, etc.). Yes, having roommates stunts 'having a life' but if you make $9 an hour you don't have the financial means to 'have a life' unless you live in your parents basement. Taking out loans and pretending that you have enough money to do so is a lie and will end you in the situation we are talking about with drudge.

This is the real world. Everyone is not on a level playing ground. You can argue the merits of the system but regardless you still must deal with it. Quality of life is not consistent or guaranteed to be at a certain level. I don't live like Bill Gates and it's not because I don't want to, it's because I don't have billions of dollars. Scale that example down by a few orders of magnitude and the same principle applies.

Originally Posted by HeallunRumblebelly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm saying expecting financial wisdom from your average taco bell cash register worker is ignorant.

Also, I don't expect financial wisdom either all the time, but I do expect people to take responsibility for the choices they made and not try to play a victim.

[dredge]

First off the house payment was $900 when I signed the mortgage, bought from the orig owners, so was based off 1950's tax estimate or something, two months after I moved in they redid the tax estimate and my payment almost doubled. Second off, fuck all you guys. Thirdly I wasn't a god damn taco bell cashier, my family owned a restaurant - bar for 35 years and I was an certified Chef with a degree.