Where did WoW go right?

[bizzum]

Originally Posted by Atmas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem with Sony was that their "progression" servers were just content locked servers. People wanted the game as it was back when they started playing but they got.. well you guys all know this. I think Blizz hasn't done a "progression" server because donig so kind of admits that you may have peaked.

Also there are technical challenges involved if they don't want to go just the SoE content locked path. I'm certain they have the old files but it isn't just as simple as running an older version fo the server. Users will need to have compatible clients and everything will be exposed to the same exploits from years back. The game map isn't even the same as numerous areas had to be re-designed for Cataclysm because when the game was made a lot of the areas were not intended to be seen or accessible from flying mounts.

None of this means it isn't doable, just there is more complexity then running old server code.

Exactly what I said was wrong with Sony's. It just needs to be marketed and ran as a seperate entity--whether that means a new install and a seperate exectuable or some other form to accomplish that its fine. I wasn't suggesting it wasn't as easy as just opening a new server and saying run wild, but if the data is there its completely possible. All I was suggesting is to not do it how Sony did, which was exactly that with a few content locks like you said.

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by square [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I shouldn't have to decipher the "context" (lol) on an online forum, be clear instead, because you simply look like a hater. Healing in WoW is by far more complex than EQ ever was, same with melee, same with casters. I'd rather smash buttons for a rotation any day than hit auto attack and watch a fight for an hour. I asked you to "go on and on" about those raids, you didn't. So please do. The most I remember from them was occasional AOE and fears which weren't even very common to begin with.

Lets compare 2 expansions of WoW to 2 expansions of EQ then...would that be fair? Its not about comparison in that sense really. If you'd take a moment to stop foaming at the mouth with hate, you'd see the thread title. We were talking about improvements made from all MMOs not just EQ either. If you think live EQ has nearly the complexity of raids compared to even just the burning crusade expansion of WoW, you simply didn't play.

I am not a WoW hater. I played the game for awhile, didn't appeal to me. It's not that I didn't like it I just don't care for easy mode and welfare epics that's all.

You're still not getting it. You want to compare EQ's first two expansions to WoW's first two expansions but again it is apples and oranges all over again. Considering WoW's release alone was later, and WoW's first two expansions were simply later than EQ's first two. I am not absolutely sure when WoW released and what stages EQ was on when it did. It's been too many years. But given the fact that WoW was released quite some time AFTER EQ, it is a given that the first two expansions in WoW are going to be more detailed, simply because of technology and the push in the MMO industry at that time. That's all I'm saying.

As for going into details on EQ raids I will start with Rathe Council, 12 mobs, all having to die within a certain short time frame. 6 mezzable and 6 had to be OT'd, for hours while pulling and setting up was being done.

Vishimtar fight. Zonewide single target periodic death touch that you had to interact with an NPC to have cleared, adds spawning every certain percentage that had to be OT'd (5 or 6 all together I think) egg sacks that had to be killed immediately or else it would wipe raid, adds that hit like a freight train everyone time one person would miss a click or DT or simply died. Zonewide periodic AE dmg. All the while positioning a very large dragon so your raid does not get frontal. And a tail swipe.

Uqua in GoD fight- Nasty DoT on zone in reducing all your stats by 250, having to wield weapon drops in this zone to avoid AE, uncureable reoccuring every minute and a half, a wrong click inside the gas chamber basically wipes your entire raid with a barrage of AE's. every 20 seconds an emote where you have to open a certain door with one of four keys that are on the table. Killing 4 constructs to spawn two named that you have to split raid force on and kill within 30 minutes of initial pop. Among other encounters taking many hours to get through all to receive a flag...

Queen Sendaii- 4 waves, wave 1 and 2 are just adds, not many. Wave 3 spawns 6 adds that split into 12 more adds that split into 3 more each, somewhere around 36 adds or better, all having to be killed in a specific order to avoid being overwhelmed. All the while Queen is moving around her hive AE'ing an 11,000 damage spell which is basically instant death at this point. Then once you have all the adds down you engage the Queen and every 25% she splits into 4 copies, have to find and take down the "right one" to 50% for the other adds to despawn, and finally at 25% 35-40 adds spawn at once and you AE mez, and pray you kill her in time. And all waves are timed and you have to hurry.

These are just a few examples along the way. Almost every encounter in Tacvi, Seat of the Slayer was an obstacle course.This is not even getting into detail of any raids past DoDh expansion. The Queen Sendaii fight was just a flag fight to get into the main raid zone in DoDh. There was worse inside the demiplane. And this is not even in great detail about the fights. There was more involved then what I explained. I just don't see the sense in rambling on about it.

You guys criticize me for not playing through WoW long enough to get the beef of it, and I can understand that. But obviously not everyone here played EQ through it's entirety either. Both games had a lot to offer.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by square [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I shouldn't have to decipher the "context" (lol) on an online forum, be clear instead, because you simply look like a hater. Healing in WoW is by far more complex than EQ ever was, same with melee, same with casters. I'd rather smash buttons for a rotation any day than hit auto attack and watch a fight for an hour. I asked you to "go on and on" about those raids, you didn't. So please do. The most I remember from them was occasional AOE and fears which weren't even very common to begin with.

I also never said I was bored, part of the reason I play on P1999 is the ability to multi-task while playing (sometimes). Other games you actually need to be active 99% of the time. There's no debate about complexity, you're letting your nostalgia goggles blind you, or you simply lied about ever playing WoW. See the part I bolded? You mentioned how encounters weren't complex. WoW (and some other games honestly) made more complex encounters, that would be an improvement, aka Where WoW went right! GEE WIZ!

Lets compare 2 expansions of WoW to 2 expansions of EQ then...would that be fair? Its not about comparison in that sense really. If you'd take a moment to stop foaming at the mouth with hate, you'd see the thread title. We were talking about improvements made from all MMOs not just EQ either. If you think live EQ has nearly the complexity of raids compared to even just the burning crusade expansion of WoW, you simply didn't play.

You're also still trying to make the point that "OMG EQ HAD THIS STUFF THE SAME TIME WOW DID!" No one here is saying WoW was the first MMO to come up with everything, yet you seem to look for anything possible to defend EQ and bash WoW for no good reason.

We're on a classic EQ forum for god's sake. We're all here for a reason, you don't need to put up a shield and defend your beloved game. You're allowed to enjoy more than one game, you're allowed to hate some, but this topic was never about bashing WoW, but people like you always feel the need to hate on what is/was popular. I bet you still use your zach morris cell phone too since APPLE AND IPHONES SUCK RARAHRAHRAHH. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This, pretty much. Stop being merciless fanboys for EQ and admit that WoW simply superceded it in nearly every single area and improved upon everything EQ had.

All of us play on p99 as a niche interest - not because millions of people share that interest. Yes, EQ was the original big-time 3d mmo. But that doesn't mean its successor didn't dominate it in almost every single way.

[Houdiny]

Just to break it down for you and reiterate my point even further. EQ's second expansion was Scars of Velious, release date: Dec 5th 2000. WoW's second expansion was Wrath of the Lich King, release date: Nov 13, 2008.

8 years of difference between the two's first two expansion release date and you guys are comparing raid content? Come on now. It's not comparable. Not even close.

Hell WoW didn't even release it's original game until 2004. 4 years after EQ launched it's second expansion. By the time WoW released EQ was already on Omens of War expansion. According the MMO timelines and google searches.

So of course WoW's 2nd expansion is going to be lightyears ahead of EQ's second expansion.

To put it in perspective by the time WoW released the Wrath of the Lich king, EQ was already on Seeds of Destruction expansion, probably it's 25th or better. If you played in that expansion and are able to compare the two then please do. Otherwise it's apples and oranges fellas.

And I am not here to say EQ was better than WoW. What I am saying is people who call WoW's raiding experience more challenging or better, obviously didn't play EQ through it's entirety and therefor doesn't really have a clue about it.

[Arclanz]

This has been discussed ad nauseum but here goes again.
1. Marketing
2. Blizzard Brand Name
3. Game so easy a child, and his mom could play (and does).

Let's analyze item 1. Not only has Blizzard constantly advertised their game on the internet and TV, but also they practically gave the game away to millions of chinese players. Now Blizzard can claim to have "millions of players," and suckers like you and I think "hey that must be a great game since so many people are playing."

I, nor any of the hundreds of EQ players I knew, have ever played WoW. I assume it is as easy as the stupidly dumbed down state of Live EQ.

In contrast, SOE spends almost zero dollars on marketing. I suspect it is because they are spread too thin on too many games to market any one particular product. SOE can crank out great products in incredible timelines but are fairly retarded when it comes to marketing and leveraging their IP.

Further, if SOE didn't completely redo their game every six months, alienating most of their customers along the way; they would have subs equal to, if not higher, than WoW.

[lawll]

Originally Posted by Houdiny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You guys criticize me for not playing through WoW long enough to get the beef of it, and I can understand that. But obviously not everyone here played EQ through it's entirety either. Both games had a lot to offer.

I think the game mechanics of any raid boss in BWL, AQ and nax has a way harder learning curve then any EQ raid boss. Just because a bunch of adds spawn and need to be OT or mez doesn't make it hard when you have been doing this since classic. Blizzard put mini games into raiding and it wasn't always just about combat to win. They made raiding fun for a lot of people that's what EQ was lacking by far.

[Houdiny]

Oh is that ever true. Marketing, and targeting a casual and VERY large player base has earned WoW the MMO of all MMO's.

It's a lot like social media. If you are to bother with an online media type, which one are you going to choose? Myspace or Facebook? Nobody is on Myspace anymore. Everyone has migrated to Facebook because it is much simpler, easier, and new. And therefor it's where everyone went.

[lawll]

Originally Posted by Arclanz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This has been discussed ad nauseum but here goes again.

3. Game so easy a child, and his mom could play (and does).

Give us a few good reasons why EQ is harder than WoW without giving us pointless time sinks and grinds. The grind is a gimmick to hold of people from seeing your lack of content and I think if blizzard can skip a lot of the grind and still have a solid game it means a lot.

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by lawll [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the game mechanics of any raid boss in BWL, AQ and nax has a way harder learning curve then any EQ raid boss. Just because a bunch of adds spawn and need to be OT or mez doesn't make it hard when you have been doing this since classic. Blizzard put mini games into raiding and it wasn't always just about combat to win. They made raiding fun for a lot of people that's what EQ was lacking by far.

You are very correct. Agree 100% about the difficulty in encounters getting more evolved. I only listed encounters up to a certain point in time. There are encounters even later in EQ that are much more similar to what you are referring too. Sisters event in Demiplane comes to mind. And there is another text based encounter in Demi plane but can't think of the name of it. It's like playing a game with the NPCS. But don't you think that is due to having more technology and more ideas flooding the MMO market? From being 5-8 years newer? Have you tried raiding in recent EQ? I personally haven't. I quit raiding about 2 years ago. So I can't say EQ doesn't have some of those same strategies and qualities. They probably do. Vanguard had similar strategies to what you speak of. The Karax fight is like playing the Simon says game moving all around in just the right areas. So I'm sure SoE has implemented into EQ. The only problem is EQ doesn't have 12 million subs playing it today. It's washed up, old news, ran it's course.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Arclanz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3. Game so easy a child, and his mom could play (and does).

This is usually said by people who thought they were good at the game because they could twink characters at the higher level range of a low BG bracket and stomp people a few levels under them or play a hunter in AV, or gank people trying to quest at half-hp with a rogue.

Getting to max level in WoW was easier than in EQ. Doing anything in real PvP or any serious raiding in WoW was an entirely different matter.