Where did EQ Live go wrong?

[Skekekke]

I wouldn't say "EQ went wrong," it's still a successful game. So to say it failed, we are blinded by our one sided "classic or die" opinion.

The game didn't fail, it just changed, not instantaneously (well kinda, stats drastically changed when GoD came out), but over time. People are still paying to play it, and it's numerous expansions.

What happens when we get to the point when Velious is capped out? What happens when there's nothing more to do, just the same thing over and over? Make another toon? Twink it to hell and back? Get bored and quit, or release a new expansion, and retain players? That's all EQ did, try to retain it's players (Marketing) and keep the shareholders happy.

[eqravenprince]

Originally Posted by Skekekke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What happens when we get to the point when Velious is capped out? What happens when there's nothing more to do, just the same thing over and over? Make another toon? Twink it to hell and back? Get bored and quit, or release a new expansion, and retain players? That's all EQ did, try to retain it's players (Marketing) and keep the shareholders happy.

I honestly feel that the server will remain strong even at capped at Velious with no future additions. Some of the hardcore raiding population will eventually get bored and leave, but I do not think they represent the core player here.

[toddfx]

Originally Posted by Skekekke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Make another toon? Twink it to hell and back? Get bored and quit,

Twinking is one aspect that is always overlooked in threads like this. Of course it is the players choice, not the game developers, but to me twinking is definitely a factor which degrades the true experience of EQ or any game for that matter.

In my book, twinking is cheating. It is a blurry line indeed, but twinking your level 1 character with 10k worth of gear seems pretty disgraceful. I can admit I have done my share of twinking (and PLing, etc.), but looking back on all my EQ experiences, the best have ALWAYS been the FIRST characters on said servers.

I certainly know it is very difficult to resist the urge to transfer over just a few hundred plat for provisions, but the instant you do even that, the entire game changes. It's no longer about finding your way in the rough, collecting all the loot you can (and loving it), and steadily building a character you can be proud of. It leads you to overlook and bypass 90% of the things you would have been excited about if you were playing the game like it was meant to be played.

Over-twinking your young characters takes away everything there is to look forward to other than that next DING sound, and dramatically accelerates the gap of time before you run out of worthy content and get bored. Maybe that is the way some people like it. But to others, it's the surefire way to get burned out.

Anyway, I know this is not 100% on topic, but in my personal experience twinking and taking big shortcuts is definitely an aspect (which was directly accelerated by numerous expansion features) that contributed my past EQ experiences to go wrong. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TL;DR: Blame it on the damned expansions! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Arclanz]

I feel the same way, Todd! (and also guilty of (very) little twinking and PL'ng*, myself)

Came back to EQ for LDON, and when I saw a paladin slay undead for 5k, I suddenly felt moved to play my main again. I two boxed my 65 Cleric to get my Paladin from 55 to 60 and about 100 more AAs. AAs were a lot more time consuming back then. One AA per hour was considered very good at that time.

[Houdiny]

I don't buy the whole "twinking ruins games" factor. I tend to lean towards it helping more than hurting. And here is why.

We all play this game, and the objective to the game is to get experience and level up and achieve nice things. There are a handful of people who have no interest in this at all, but to my experience playing MMO's these are few and very far between. The status quo is level up, have fun, get stuff, enjoy the game.

And here is where I lose this argument. If someone is twinking a character they are making life on them much easier, and the groups they attend. I ran into a few monks with Fungi tunics leveling up and it was great. We didn't have enough players for a full group and the fact that the monk could tank and not need much if any healing allowed me to enjoy a group that otherwise wasn't going to happen.

Not to mention that when you are looking for people to fill a group roll the majority of people don't take whoever is available. They take the best fit for their group. What's going to reward them the best exp and the best chance of items dropping.

Twinking and re playability is essential to EQ I think. It is one of the reasons the game has stayed alive and going for so many years. While others without twinking and re playability have faded away into the sunset. I'm not saying that is the only reason why but I think it plays a large part in the longevity of Everquest.

[cliveceps]

I agree with a few of you guys that what made EQ great was the need for community and to rely on each other. The Bazaar turned people into robots. It also eliminated the rarity of a lot of items - much like the Internet did to baseball cards.

PoK books made the world feel much smaller. Running from Grobb to Freeport on a level 1 troll used to be an awesome achievement - now it's a 300 ft walk and 2 clicks. There's also kind of a natural progression to these types of video games. I remember thinking the ghoul lord was difficult for a group of 40's, then I was soloing it, then I was 3 manning Kunark dragons, etc. It cheapens your experience.

I think SOE lost their raiding population when every key became a huge grind, and every fight became a 60 minute epic where one mistake would cause you to spend hours reclearing and trying again. The amount of trash mobs got ridiculous. I remember spending hours and hours clearing trash in Vex Thall and Plane of Earth more than I remember the actual boss fights. WoW gave people a way out, promising to fix every mistake EQ had ever made. Of course it didn't do that, but there were some improvements and the PVP element drew a lot of people towards that game.

[maahes]

AA's were a double edge sword. The way EQ did them is the only way they should ever be done. However, it did stop people from playing alts which in turn killed the fun for leveling a new toon. Everyone on the server was in 3 - 5 zones grinding AA's. And the rest of the world was a ghost town.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by maahes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everyone was 3 to 5 zones grinding AA's.

They obsoleted zones every time there was an expansion. Was eerie visiting like EC, GFay, or Oasis and being the only person in the zone.

[falkun]

I liked the concept of AA, but letting them run rampant instead of forcing specialization (like limiting the number you can get, a la talents in WoW) was a bad decision IMO.

The final straw for me quitting EQ was when OoW came out. I thought about buying the expansion, but then I realized I had hardly played at all in GoD territory, why should I buy OoW?

[Daldaen]

Well yes it is a double edged sword:

Do I continue playing my level 60 where exp yields almost 0 benefit to me or do I get bored and quit because I don't like leveling alts (This describes lots of people).

Once you max out your gear in the feasible ways you can, at level 60 there isn't much you can do the progress your character other than raid.

Personally I like AAs just because of the depth it brought to the game and helped get rid of annoying pain in the ass stuff. Mass Group Buff for example.