Consequences of pvp death leads to better pvp communities

[Hobosamurai]

I am down for item loot or any other ideas of pvp death consequences. The reason being is I do believe their is such a thing as a pvp crime. Making pvp extremely costly makes the population more inclined to force all players to self govern themselves.

This idea of "hardcore" is a delusional concept. The more free community and competetive is the one that removes the pests and forces the individual to have standards. Anyone without standards (virtue, honor) where removed like any rodent or disease infested bug.

Killing people randomly and having the "survival of the fittest" attitude just leads to who is the victor, the cockroach or the disease that is attemping to kill it off.

On VZ when item loot was on there was such thing as quality pvp. We had players who honored certain codes of conduct like corpse camping and training while others who didnt. The ones who didnt where outcasts who where killed on site and only had the ability to deal with each other in trade.

Virtue is the "fittest" this whole tribalism concept of who can be the best trash can or cockroach is a childs view of reality and wouldnt survive in a world where death was the consequence.

The greater the consequence the better individuals govern themselves. In this we can have a great pvp community and without this we just have a sewer of a pvp server where the diseases and rodents fight it out on who can smell and be the lowest form of pvper.

[Bockscar]

By that logic, the best server would be one where your character only has one life.

You're spewing a load of bullshit. It has been proven endlessly that making PvP/death more costly just encourages the vast number of douchebag present here to grief and harass as much as they possibly can. They already will, but at least they can't completely fuck the game up for others the way they'd be able to with itemloot.

There is absolutely no correlation between itemloot and a healthy gameplay environment. The reason you remember itemloot as a positive thing was because it existed when the game was young and everyone cared about it in a different way. People here are not worried about their reputation, about upholding the "PvP law," or about the merits of victory. A huge portion of this playerbase is specifically out to make life as sour as at all possible to everyone outside their crew, and if you can grief someone off the server, that's a win in their book. The more damage you can cause, the less fun you can make the game to other players, the more high-fives you earn in this setting. It can't be compared to what Everquest was like in 1999/2000.

Stop trying to bring virtue and tribalism and dumb ideals into it. It has no application on a server where being the biggest asshole is seen by many as an accomplishment. Itemloot will not moderate the PvP environment, it will simply change the way everyone PvPs by encouraging them to either loot as many items as they can in any way possible (which is not through competitive PvP), or PvPing in ways that don't involve risking items. There's no point trying to achieve the same mentality that existed twelve years ago as it mostly existed because the game was new and people cared about what others thought of them.

Besides, it's pointless to discuss. Rogean has announced that itemloot is not something they wish to provide, nor do they attempt to cater to the type of player who can't enjoy PvP without itemloot.

[Hobosamurai]

Well.... from your post I can see you prefer the sewer. I didnt make blanket statements like "There is no correlation between item loot and good pvp server". I never said there was I said "concequences" which I was trying to create a open dialog not closed one. I mentioned it only from my experiences on VZ as a example and please read my title on this post its the first thing you see.

Having dialog about this server doesnt relate to how we interact in game. Keeping dialog open is all we can do to hopefully come to some conclusions to the reality of this current server population and its success.

So if you want to throw your rodent comments and disease based ideas and you are the common folk of the server then you are correct I am wasteing your time and mine and this server will be the trash can I speak of.

Enjoy

[Dfn]

Originally Posted by Bockscar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It has been proven endlessly that making PvP/death more costly just encourages the vast number of douchebag present here to grief and harass as much as they possibly can.

It has been proven endlessly that death without penalty creates meaningless PvP, encourages bind rushing, and promotes the philosophy of dying being "ok" because it doesn't matter.

[juicedsixfo]

Originally Posted by Dfn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It has been proven endlessly that death without penalty creates meaningless PvP, encourages bind rushing, and promotes the philosophy of dying being "ok" because it doesn't matter.

What the fuck is up with all these idiots and "meaningless/meaningful PvP"? EQ PvP is the same fucking game with PvP flags turned on – that's it. There's plenty of "meaning": takeover camps, control loot, down raids, own zones, et cetera. What the hell do you want, a fucking medal?

[Dfn]

Originally Posted by juicedsixfo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What the fuck is up with all these idiots and "meaningless/meaningful PvP"? EQ PvP is the same fucking game with PvP flags turned on – that's it. There's plenty of "meaning": takeover camps, control loot, down raids, own zones, et cetera. What the hell do you want, a fucking medal?

And what's to stop Mr. Doesntgiveafuck from coming back and dying to you every 5 minutes until you finally leave the camp because you don't have the mana/hp to kill him faster than he respawns and comes back? You can't kill the camp in that time, and you care about your reputation enough that you don't want to die to him to preserve the camp. How do you "takeover camps" in this situation? Light bulb moment for you?

That is where a penalty comes into play. Item loot, exp loss, whatever it is keeps Mr. Doesntgiveafuck from dying to you 500 times, wasting your time while you get nothing out of it. Killing Mr. Doesntgiveafuck is no satisfaction in and of itself as 75% of the server has killed him half a hundred times. He doesn't lose anything from dying to you and he doesn't care that he dies.

Now, apply this to "own zones" and "et cetera." I know thinking through things is sometimes difficult for those with intelligence as low as yourself, but please do us all a favor and try to process the information presented before posting more of your retard drivel. Thanks and have a nice day.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Dfn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is where a penalty comes into play. Item loot, exp loss, whatever it is keeps Mr. Doesntgiveafuck from dying to you 500 times

The server is proposed to have have coin loot and a pvp exp penalty. Is that different from consequences?

[juicedsixfo]

Originally Posted by Dfn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And what's to stop Mr. Doesntgiveafuck from coming back and dying to you every 5 minutes until you finally leave the camp because you don't have the mana/hp to kill him faster than he respawns and comes back? You can't kill the camp in that time, and you care about your reputation enough that you don't want to die to him to preserve the camp. How do you "takeover camps" in this situation? Light bulb moment for you?

Nope, because bind rushing will be against the play nice policy you fucking moron.

Originally Posted by Dfn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is where a penalty comes into play. Item loot, exp loss, whatever it is keeps Mr. Doesntgiveafuck from dying to you 500 times, wasting your time while you get nothing out of it. Killing Mr. Doesntgiveafuck is no satisfaction in and of itself as 75% of the server has killed him half a hundred times. He doesn't lose anything from dying to you and he doesn't care that he dies.

Now, apply this to "own zones" and "et cetera." I know thinking through things is sometimes difficult for those with intelligence as low as yourself, but please do us all a favor and try to process the information presented before posting more of your retard drivel. Thanks and have a nice day.

It sounds like you hate playing on a PvP server. What good is "item loot" on someone that's breaking the rules and bind rushing you? Also,

Originally Posted by moht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The server is proposed to have have coin loot and a pvp exp penalty. Is that different from consequences?

[Softcore PK]

I agree with OP. As I recall, the players on VZ were more "honorable" than those on TZ, even at the end. And I think item loot at the start had a lot to do with this. It also encouraged purism, which was dead very soon on TZ but on VZ lasted a long while (especially dark team). Consequence is a very good thing for the pvp environment. Bockscar, on the other hand, also brings up a good point. This is 12 years later and the biggest/only guilds that seem to forming now are full of griefers whose goals are to kill as many people as they can, and not to experience the fantasy world of EQ and enjoy evolving server politics.

Also, I think item loot on this server would scare away too many people. We want to maintain a healthy population at all costs, and to do so I think we need to recruit as many bluebies as is possible. Bluebies will not want their items stolen from them, the prospect I'm sure is an unpleasant one.

Hobosamurai, I think the devs agreed with you about consequence. They have decided to make pvp deaths an exp loss, like dying in pve, though reduced.

[Authority]

Have any of you tardos played pvp since over a decade ago? Paalease, leave the game concepts to the adults.