Regarding item loot.

[Not_Kazowi]

vztz did its best without item loot, just such a stupid implementation. I will play regardless but there is a reason vztz wasnt item loot for its entire duration

[rike]

no punishment for wearing the best gear you've got doesn't sit well with me =C!

[Yukahwa]

Originally Posted by rike [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

no punishment for wearing the best gear you've got doesn't sit well with me =C!

I feel the same way. I think the server should start with regular item loot.

If somehow there are problems that are really serious (i dont think there will be) then it can degrade to 1 non equipped item loot since this is the only compromise that still sort-of works and should be easy to implement.

Really though I think normal item loot makes more sense.

[Not_Kazowi]

just make it coin and exp loss

[Palemoon]

The only benefit to allowing old style item loot, is to put a damper on the lvl 12 super twink syndrome.

As someone who played red EQ from beta4 onwards, i'd go with just coin loot. But the idea of a random inventory item being looted is intriguing and won't punish non casters more then casters.

I think zone control/spawn control is reason enough to encourage pvp.

Coin loot is a must though.

[Rushmore]

People want Item loot.

People don't want Item loot.

Meet in the middle bros.

[Bockscar]

Thou shalt not steal. Blessed are the meek.

[Bockscar]

Melees are ok. With decent gear, a melee will do alright in PvP and is often better for dungeon PvP than casters, and dungeon PvP is what really matters in the long run. What do high-end guilds rely most heavily on? Melee assist trains. A big concern for serious PvP guilds is if too many of their members roll easymode instant-gratification mage and necro so that they lose the important dungeon fights against other guilds who didn't make that mistake. Since a lot of PvP takes place outdoors because it's more convenient and is where you typically meet people alone, casters are in their dominant environment more often than melees are. Both archetypes still have an environment where they're superior, though. Regardless, there will be no buffs to melees, I can pretty much guarantee that. They don't change the core game mechanics for the sake of PvP, just the ruleset and the odd broken peripheral thing that doesn't change the gameplay fundamentals. Itemloot is usually bad for any server, but at least it's just bagloot and not your worn equipment. Melees will be allowed to participate in PvP.

[Aenor]

Originally Posted by Papaver [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your feedback on what negative aspects are the most detrimental to the game at large would be appreciated.

What's most detrimental to the game is how this affects long term population. Once you have a level 50 on the server it's easy to farm gear, including no drop gear, to twink out lower level toons. Some players won't find out about this server until months down the road, and I don't want them to be discouraged from joining the server because they feel they have no chance to compete against all the de-leveled twinks in planar gear who are going to jack their newbie tunic.

[Pudge]

Originally Posted by Papaver [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It has been apparent since the initial launch of EverQuest PvP in general and item loot in particular were neither well thought out, balanced, nor implemented up to the standards the community desired.

So my question to people that desire a red p99 server is, what would alleviate the majority of your concerns regarding item loot?

Just bounce random ideas around here.

For example, what if levels 1-45 were not lootable, but levels 46-50 were (assuming the attacker was also 46+).

Or what about guild based pvp? That is to say, no guildless characters are lootable, but people that are guild tagged are.

Or how about handing in a tome of discord to set an 'item lootable' flag on your character which would change the tint of the text of your name from pink to dark red (in which case, the attacker can only loot an item if they are also flagged as lootable)?

Or a flag for lootable set during the character creation process which cannot be changed later?

Personally I feel that item loot should be across the board for everyone-- with few exemptions like pvp areas in cities and in 'The Arena' itemloot-free (only pure pvp with no risk of losing items), but seeing as so many people feel so strongly against it, your feedback on what negative aspects are the most detrimental to the game at large would be appreciated.

i know the itemloot thread is long to read, but basically the sentiment is:

coin loot = definitely

item loot = majority strongly against it, minority strongly for it

the only way i can see itemloot working is if it is very limited.. like, "non-lore items only" or "bagged loot only" (inventory slots also non-lootable, so ppl could choose to sacrifice an entire bag worth of gear to carry 1 non-lootable item unequipped)

in general, 0 item loot is the way to go. but i see why a compromise could be fun, as long as there is very little QQ potential (BTW, manastones arent lore are they..?) to answer specific questions:

1) lower levels non-lootable? better but.. still, when you get to camp good items is 50+, so that is when losing an item matters most. the opposite sounds even better.. levels 1-45 lootable, levels 45+ non-lootable. this would prevent twink PKs from ruling the lower levels.

2+3) flagged item loot wouldnt work. smart ppl would never flag themselves as lootable, it is much more valuable to be able to wear you gear than the chance at ganking someone's FBSS. especially in raid pvp, the important thing is winning, not being able to loot someone's shit. groups will roll out with 1 "loot-flagged" player, trying to get this guy the killshot so he can loot. flagging that shit just wont work. even if it will placate the pro-item-looters, it will not result in long sustainable gameplay for the server

4) negative feedback in general: itemloot promotes random ganking by groupmates (temporary "friends" until you are low health) increases fear of pvp and any unknown player in general, requires ppl to run and bag gear instead of fight against the odds, encourages corpse camping, gives an advantage to insta-bagging MQers, and makes the server environment more hostile than most ppl want to play in. ppl want to wear their gear, not run around fearing their gear they camped for 25 hours camp will be ganked at any moment.

hard-core players will play with itemloot in or out. but you will lose many, many ppl with itemloot in, unless item loot is somehow severely restricted. (like, "bagged-non-lore-items-only" restricted..) just look at VZTZ, the population while item loot was in was like 1/3 of what it was when there was no item loot

if i were devs and i really wanted to put itemloot in, i would limited it to the above; BAGGED (which means IN A BAG, not just sitting in an inventory slot) non-lore items only.