Pet weapon questions

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if you want to make the positive claim "ducking takes too much time away from your stun cast", you'll need to supply evidence for that claim too.

You are so insane.

No "evidence" needs to be supplied. It's a fact that ducking takes extra time, everyone understands this. Losing time is an inherent detriment. You still don't get it, after how many years now?

Also since you still don't understand the most basic layer of why it's worse to waste time like this in competitive gameplay, I'll reiterate again:

The maximum mode of production in this game involves sitting down as much as possible to gain mana. Any time you cast something, without specifically timing it between ticks, you're possibly losing mana. A "zero mana" 2 second activation ability, that isn't being used solely during controlled downtime, in fact costs more mana over time than an instant cast ability, as you're inherently creating a higher chance of missing a med tick by standing up longer.

[kjs86z2]

Originally Posted by Wayward [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, maybe the GGR is better for getting that split-second pet break at 0% - saving a bit of mana trying to finish pet.

Just another reason Necros have a superior charm kit - Instant break without target needed with CoS, and 2 different mana-free DoT options that stack to finish off old pets.

Oh yeah and the OP nature of Pacify pet before Feigning Death to reset.

lmao thinking necros kit is superior for charming

just lmao

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just to be clear, you believe that the instant cast aspect of GGR provides zero benefit over the 2-second cast of RoST in 1v1 charming where you plan to break charm after every fight? There's no benefit at all? No difference?

The biggest claim most people seem to make with GGR is it allows you to "get more kills per hour via mana saving by using cheaper nukes". There has been zero evidence provided for this by any advocate of instant cast invis. Nor have I seen this myself, as I can get the same mana savings with non-instant cast invis.

There are some other theoretical benefits, but I can't think of a scenario where they would make sense.

1. You could guarantee a charm break while being attacked, as instant cast cannot be interrupted. But if you are being attacked, breaking charm will add another mob to the list of mobs attacking you. Doesn't seem like a great idea, especially on a cloth caster.

2. You could break charm while moving. But if you want to cast spells on the mobs, you still need to be within casting range. I can't really think of a scenario that would require you to move for 2 seconds, break charm on the move, and still be in range of the mob all at the same time. You can just position correctly beforehand.

3. It would be easier in theory to get a med tick if you are one of the rare individuals who tries to sit every 6 seconds for max med ticks. Honestly though after playing on the server for 10+ years, I've never seen anyone do this consistently for any play session. It's too much work for most people. Closest thing to this is canni dancing. I guess if you happen to have a manastone, maybe you'll get some benefit.

Nothing I mentioned above is noteworthy for normal players who don't sit every 6 seconds, or have a manastone.

RoST has benefits as well:
1. You don't need to retarget. You can pretarget while RoST is casting.
2. It acts as your invis item, so you don't need to mem invis.
3. You don't need multiple inventory slots used for GGR + invis item(s).

RoST has better benefits for a normal player, and there is no evidence GGR gives more kills per hour.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are so insane.

No "evidence" needs to be supplied. It's a fact that ducking takes extra time, everyone understands this. Losing time is an inherent detriment. You still don't get it, after how many years now?

Also since you still don't understand the most basic layer of why it's worse to waste time like this in competitive gameplay, I'll reiterate again:

The maximum mode of production in this game involves sitting down as much as possible to gain mana. Any time you cast something, without specifically timing it between ticks, you're possibly losing mana. A "zero mana" 2 second activation ability, that isn't being used solely during controlled downtime, in fact costs more mana over time than an instant cast ability, as you're inherently creating a higher chance of missing a med tick by standing up longer.

You are so silly. Of course ducking takes time lol. I wasn't asking for evidence of that. You clearly cannot read. The evidence I am asking for is realistic scenarios where ducking before a stun cast would be detrimental. I've ducked a lot of spells over the years, even when being attacked. I am not convinced you are going to have a problem. The odds of charm breaking during an RoST cast, AND ducking is a problem on your stun cast time, is a very very rare scenario.

Most people do not use GGR to get extra med ticks. After 10+ years on the server and playing with 100s of people, I haven't seen this behavior with any consistency. Everybody understands you can get med ticks if you sit every 6 seconds while running. People just don't do it, because it's annoying.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The maximum mode of production in this game involves sitting down as much as possible to gain mana. Any time you cast something, without specifically timing it between ticks, you're possibly losing mana. A "zero mana" 2 second activation ability, that isn't being used solely during controlled downtime, in fact costs more mana over time than an instant cast ability, as you're inherently creating a higher chance of missing a med tick by standing up longer.

One more point on this:

https://youtu.be/eH_b-waHS5M?is=DsgOQ-J5D_APqejQ

This is Zuranthium's video of a charm kill on his Druid. He is standing the entire time during the fight. He does not attempt to get med ticks when he could have. He doesn't even practice what he preaches.

This is how most people actually play, even Zuranthium himself. Not only is sitting every 6 seconds annoying during a fight, it can be dangerous. If you get hit while sitting, that is a max damage hit.

[kjs86z2]

ITT: lots of mediocre to bad players

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by kjs86z2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ITT: lots of mediocre to bad players

Indeed. There has been no evidence presented that suggests a skilled Enchanter/Druid/Necromancer will get more kills per hour using GGR compared to RoST for charm breaks. "Trust me bro" is not an argument, yet it keeps getting repeated ad nauseum.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

RoST has benefits as well:
1. You don't need to retarget. You can pretarget while RoST is casting.
2. It acts as your invis item, so you don't need to mem invis.
3. You don't need multiple inventory slots used for GGR + invis item(s).

RoST has better benefits for a normal player, and there is no evidence GGR gives more kills per .

Meanwhile dsms “trust me bro” arguments in favor of using the ROST because he finds targeting himself with ggr annoying. And claims it’s better for normal players by some false sense of authority lol. Classic. Yet still claims shamans can root rot to compete with mage dps even tho he’s too lazy to target himself. While still having not provided evidence years later. So sad.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by kjs86z2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ITT: lots of mediocre to bad players

Was my conclusion early on. Seen that especially with dsm and his mediocre play.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know you miss me buddy! Sorry that I haven't had time to raid with you. Maybe sometime soon!

Calling bs on this too. Has plenty of time to edit posts and make thousands of them. Raiding with a bat phone doesn’t take long.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Meanwhile dsms “trust me bro” arguments in favor of using the ROST because he finds targeting himself with ggr annoying. And claims it’s better for normal players by some false sense of authority lol. Classic. Yet still claims shamans can root rot to compete with mage dps even tho he’s too lazy to target himself. While still having not provided evidence years later. So sad.

As you can see, Crede has still not provided any evidence for his initial claim:

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But when talking about xp per hour instant invis is gonna give you more reliable breaks without risk of wasting extra mana to kill your old pet or trying to time the casting delay and lose your pet. This could be proved over a long period of testing I just don’t feel the need to because I’ve already seen it while leveling.

There is no evidence to suggest a skilled Enchanter cannot get the same kills per hour with RoST compared to GGR. He is just saying "trust me bro" over and over, with some insults and Argument from Authority fallacy sprinkled in. One day he may learn that when he makes a positive claim, he actually needs to back it up with evidence.

He is now flailing. It is strange to see someone suggest that obvious facts like "GGR + 1 Invis item take up two inventory slots" is a "trust me bro" argument.

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Calling bs on this too. Has plenty of time to edit posts and make thousands of them. Raiding with a bat phone doesn’t take long.

Pretending that someone's current raid attendance is the only way to guage raid experience is a silly argument. We all know this. You are just flailing because you know you are wrong.