As a christian.

[Landroval]

Originally Posted by Vormotus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To be honest, The Adversary is in short a Servant of the Creator that is tasked to incentivize the natural evil inclination native and 100% natural to man, he hates us as much as 0, and in very old hebrew texts he even loathes the job.

The Satan you describe is a modern retelling of the Milton one (which in turn is a further reconstruction of the dark ages adversary, which in turn was a corruption of the Demiruge/Yaldabaoth of the mediterranean gnostics during the 1st Century CE), that has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the original idea of the "Enemy" and so abused by Hollywood to be able to give a modicum of backstory to their horror blockbuster films.

This whole notion of demiplanes filled to the brim with demons is also more asian than european, as on this side we actually had quite entertaining and fully flawed gods, godlings and fickle entities.

Christianity on the whole, specially the USA versions that spawned there, are quite frankly literal fanfiction converted into canon (not leaving catholicism behind, which has a metric truckload of bad takes, made to convenience exegesis and a lot of very much human, and not demonic, corruption, greed and need to control behind it).

It is better to be an optmistic nihilist than a fervent believer in a demon spawned hellscape on earth, but again, thats is my own take.

It is honestly entertaining though, and I wish you peace and happiness. Also the internet is not a very good place to discuss these beliefs, as you will find as many adherents as detractors. Not very healthy either.

It is my sincere wish you find peace, both here and in the afterlife you believe in, life is too short to get lost in minutiae of dogma and spend it cloistered behind mental prison bars where only other inmates of the same prison can come visit in.

Be well man, super hug to you.

Again, this is more or less my take, it would be terrible to live in a world where man made demons, like Vancian ones from Dying Earth have rule or sway over creation, but hey, everyone is free to believe in their own backstory of choice.

I fully respect everyones opinion on the issue.

Speaking of the middle age, have you ever read Nicholas of Cusa? There's quite a few errors and oversights in your synopsis. Ultimately, the mythological structure of Christianity is an evolution of Platonism, Pythagoreanism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Judaism, with a little Hellenism mixed in.

But it goes something like this; in Plato's Theory of Forms, there exists a realm of perfection above this lesser planet of existence where pure and perfected concepts exist in relation to each other as "Forms".

Coming to understand the nature of these Ideals (Forms) can be approached through dialectical reasoning; dialectics of the Grecian sort, not the modern repivot of Hegel et al, mind you.

So we can take a conceptual form like "Pride" and attempt to discern exactly what pride is by assessing how pride is personified or exemplified, and how these exemplifications are projected outward onto others.

Pride is personified in Arrogance and Ignorance. Arrogance is a hautiness or sense of betterness than others, and ignorance is a characteristic which belies a lack of understanding in some arena or another.

We can see Pride is others, but what are the signifiers that point us towards it's identification in those possessing pride?

The mind is a sort of inverse mirror, so we don't actually see a person's arrogance or ignorance directly, in most situations, but we can quickly ascertain a person who is prideful as being prideful so there must be actions or tells the prideful person reveals to us through other venues which tips us off....

The ignorance of pride tips itself off by boasting of its knowledge, which it Lords over others, so if we position pride as central to an axiom, at the Origin, with arrogance and ignorance as neighbors on a pundit square to it's left, then on the square diagonal from Ignorance, Knowledge resides as its inverse or Syzygial opposite

Likewise, if arrogance is a sense of betterness or "strongerness", it's syzygial opposite is weakness, which is cast out by the arrogantly prideful person, onto others, so we identify a person imbibing "Pride" by their Lording of knowledge over others, and their attempts to properly themselves above others who they eschew as Weaker than them.

Arrogance---------\|/--------Knowledge
---------------------Pride-------------------
Ignorance---------/|\---------Weakness

In Pythagoreanism, this construct representing pride is a pyramidal structure with four bases and Pride at the apex of the tetrad.

The same extrapolation can be applied to Shame, in that shame is personified or exemplified as Ignorance and Failure (Sin, missing the mark) and projected as Weakness and Humiliation which the ashamed attempts to ignore.

Ignorance---------\|/---------Weakness
--------------------Shame------------------
Sin(failure)--------/|\--------Humiliation


So the Tetrad of Shame shares to bases with Pride making it only a half-opposite, and modern psychologists would agree that Pride is merely subconsciously repressed Shame, both of which are aspects of Jungian ego.

Proverbs 11:2 states with pride comes disgrace (shame), but with the humble comes Wisdom, thereby showing this relation was already known in wisdom texts of the ancient past.

Humility as a Form can be mapped with the following Pythagorean tetrad:

Strength-----------\|/-------Awareness
-------------------Humility----------------
Humiliation-------/|\----------Patience


And wisdom with the following Tetrad:

Knowledge-------\|/----------Success
-------------------Wisdom---------------
Strength-----------/|\-------Awareness


And these four Tetrads form the base of a higher tetrad; one of the Prime Tetrads in philosophy; Truth

Pride--------------\|/------Wisdom
Weakness-----Truth-------Strength
Shame------------/|\-------Humility

But if we rotate the prime tetrad of Truth 90 degrees to see how Wisdom and Pride relate, or how Shame and Humility relate, we see an interesting relation;

Ignorance-------\|/----------Arrrogance
-------------------Pride---------------
Courage---------/|\-------Knowledge
Courage---------\|/-------Knowledge
------------------Wisdom----------------
Awareness-------/|\---------Strength

The differential between Weakness and Strength amalgamizes into Courage, for prideful and foolhardy courage is a weakness, where as wise and valorous courage is Strength.

Likewise between humility and shame, the amalgamation of strength and weakness becomes Vulnerability, as weakness earnestly sought to the point of failure builds strength through experience.

This means that philosophical Truth and Experience are very closely related, with Experience existing at center on the pyramidal tetrad that lines up with the tetrad of Truth, sharing four bases with Truth, like an octahedron

Octahedron.jpg

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by Vormotus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To be honest, The Adversary is in short a Servant of the Creator that is tasked to incentivize the natural evil inclination native and 100% natural to man, he hates us as much as 0, and in very old hebrew texts he even loathes the job.

The Satan you describe is a modern retelling of the Milton one (which in turn is a further reconstruction of the dark ages adversary, which in turn was a corruption of the Demiruge/Yaldabaoth of the mediterranean gnostics during the 1st Century CE), that has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the original idea of the "Enemy" and so abused by Hollywood to be able to give a modicum of backstory to their horror blockbuster films.

This whole notion of demiplanes filled to the brim with demons is also more asian than european, as on this side we actually had quite entertaining and fully flawed gods, godlings and fickle entities.

Christianity on the whole, specially the USA versions that spawned there, are quite frankly literal fanfiction converted into canon (not leaving catholicism behind, which has a metric truckload of bad takes, made to convenience exegesis and a lot of very much human, and not demonic, corruption, greed and need to control behind it).

It is better to be an optmistic nihilist than a fervent believer in a demon spawned hellscape on earth, but again, thats is my own take.

It is honestly entertaining though, and I wish you peace and happiness. Also the internet is not a very good place to discuss these beliefs, as you will find as many adherents as detractors. Not very healthy either.

It is my sincere wish you find peace, both here and in the afterlife you believe in, life is too short to get lost in minutiae of dogma and spend it cloistered behind mental prison bars where only other inmates of the same prison can come visit in.

Be well man, super hug to you.

Again, this is more or less my take, it would be terrible to live in a world where man made demons, like Vancian ones from Dying Earth have rule or sway over creation, but hey, everyone is free to believe in their own backstory of choice.

I fully respect everyones opinion on the issue.

I actually got into this a lot and I don't want to like, totally disagree with your take. However...

I feel like Satan and demons and devils are real. I feel you on the Asian multiverse of demiplanes and heals and heavens and multitudes of evil entities. However science is ironically proving this true with the many univiverses and quantum theory and the mathematic probabilities of holography.

I feel like there is more truth in the Bible and biblical stuff even the bastardized and corrupt Hollywood stuff than just throwing my hands in the air and saying strate up the prophets and angels are aliens.

I believe g-d gives every righteous and genuine Christian who worked hard a choice and in the end we can all personally choose the eternal death of our own egos granted us by G-d. On judgement day. He will also not torment unbelievers in hell eternally against their will.

An unbeliever may choose to do this to themselves. However.

I appreciate the dialogue. Ur just a bit toooo highbrow and knowing for me to fully track.

Biblical stuff works great for a subset of people who really need it and that is what they are capable of (Aussenseiter's pick up sticks, likely at me).

It's part of G-d's plan and so is creepy ass Hollywood.

Like I get where ur coming from maybe. Don't waste hours of ur life on my post history trying to figure out my take. The Bible is supposed to be there to help get ppl on the same page and guide them.

It's many versions should definitely be preserved historically.

[arvidez]

Originally Posted by long.liam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm a little confused on the whole Satan thing. Sometimes Satan is referred to as a singular entity, like "The Lord of Hell" "Prince of Evil" etc. Other Times Satan referred to just a random adversary, maybe a little demon, or even just some human guy that happens to be pissing someone off.

Personally though I think most modern iterations of evil characters are way more interesting than anything that was historically produced. Most bad guys were pretty one note or very flat. It's way more intriguing to have antagonists with complex personalities and motivations.

Mephistopheles("a certain snake, my near relation") was an expert on "how men torment themselves". if you had the choice to become smart as a god or to live forever(tree of knowledge and tree of life)...

the devil (us tormenting ourselves) chose knowledge (consciousness or EGO). with no ego there is no consciousness, there is no "I". choosing knowledge we chose death. we created the "I" that dies.

everyone knows there isnt really a bunny running around a tree and coming up through a hole, but it helps get the shoes tied. pointing out there is no bunny is kind of silly, no?

[Seducio]

Originally Posted by arvidez [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mephistopheles("a certain snake, my near relation") was an expert on "how men torment themselves". if you had the choice to become smart as a god or to live forever(tree of knowledge and tree of life)...

the devil (us tormenting ourselves) chose knowledge (consciousness or EGO). with no ego there is no consciousness, there is no "I". choosing knowledge we chose death. we created the "I" that dies.

everyone knows there isnt really a bunny running around a tree and coming up through a hole, but it helps get the shoes tied. pointing out there is no bunny is kind of silly, no?

This is a really cool take and perspective. Forgive my lack of awareness but are there any stories about the Tree of Life similar to Adam and Eve re: Tree of Knowledge?

I always wanted to learn and hear more about the Life tree but perhaps I didn't know where to look or who to ask since everyone focuses on the Adam and Eve story.

[Vormotus]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Satan as a concept is super cool though so score 1 for Christians

And also score 1 for Mark Twain

Out of this particular clip I got the more amazing shorts out of tiktok/insta ever

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Satan as a concept is super cool though so score 1 for Christians

And also score 1 for Mark Twain

Originally Posted by Vormotus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Out of this particular clip I got the more amazing shorts out of tiktok/insta ever

Let me tell you, as a young male that fallen angel video sadly would have gotten a strong emotional reaction from me. Thanks to G-d I no longer feel anything but pity for those who would be deceived to think of an AI creation like that as "Good" in any way. Or to be tempted by their desires. I don't even really fear it that much. It definitely is full of creep factor butt not enough to go on a crusade, thanks to G-d I can safely mostly ignore it and know that he is watching over me. Even doesn't matter how much affect my thumbs down really has. I do think it's cruel to subject young children to stuff like that. There's a smol part of me that is tempted to be just like that and devour the universe. Still, with G-d's grace may I not live in torment as such. I may be too indifferent tho, so if the Church made such videos illegal, I feel like I would very much like to be OK with that.

I finally got around to watching these (access to real internet after my sabbatical) --- boi** what a great time to be alive and an Amish kid before Rumspringa. I think the Mark Twain one is pretty cool tho ! I don't know why it is different then the fallen angel one really, they both can lead someone towards the temptation of being all powerful like that or filling their heart like that with the void and wishing to control creation and disdain for humanity. (which I struggle with deeply).

[Seducio]

How many chromosomes do you have in your DNA?

[Seducio]

Mos def. Monotheism has created a paradigm for humans in the last several thousand years with tremendous evolutionary fitness. Basically god believing babes bang way more than secular babes.

[Seducio]

Part of why they might (the high level of banging that religious babes engage in) is that Christianity has been infused with all sorts of really cool pagan concepts because the pagans that Christians met along the way had more kids with them initially. If you can't beat them have their customs join yours. So Christianity adopted their heroes and their holidays for the express purpose of having higher rates of sexual moments and that is still a part of what it means to be Christian.

That Christmas Party that your company is throwing for the team this year. Remember to thank the pagans while celebrating a fake date of when a guy was born.

Humans are incredible story tellers.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Seducio [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Part of why they might (the high level of banging that religious babes engage in) is that Christianity has been infused with all sorts of really cool pagan concepts because the pagans that Christians met along the way had more kids with them initially. If you can't beat them have their customs join yours. So Christianity adopted their heroes and their holidays for the express purpose of having higher rates of sexual moments and that is still a part of what it means to be Christian.

That Christmas Party that your company is throwing for the team this year. Remember to thank the pagans while celebrating a fake date of when a guy was born.

Humans are incredible story tellers.

And thus 'fairy tale' is exceedingly apt for organized religion if you're gonna be harsh. There is such strong natural selection inherent in stories over time, especially apparent when you look at actual fairy tales. These are stories that are thought to have existed in some form for thousands of years, and have been whittled down to the most highly viral story structure when retold, over countless retellings. Japan ended up with an alternate version of basically Cindarella, and One Thousand and One Nights is highly syncretic across the entire middle east.