Which race is better for Paladin: Dwarf or Half Elf?

[Bockscar]

When someone asks for race advice, the most useless answer anyone can give them is "it doesn't matter." It does matter, it just doesn't determine what you can or can't do. A difference of 30 in a stat matters just as much in character creation as it does on an item, and we all know what people would pay for an ammo slot item with +30 to almost any stat. The difference between the races is noticeable, it just isn't disqualifying.

[Snaggles]

If it mattered that much everyone would be dwarves.

If I had a dwarf I’d only be able to get my CHA to 195. Outside those fill-lull modes my stats would be be better across the board. More str, more dex, more stam.

At least if you roll a dwarf go with a lady. Those horns are fire.

[Bockscar]

Wait, are you trying to argue that because there are people who play non-dwarf paladins, that's proof that stats don't do anything? Because that's essentially what you're saying.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Bockscar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When someone asks for race advice, the most useless answer anyone can give them is "it doesn't matter." It does matter, it just doesn't determine what you can or can't do. A difference of 30 in a stat matters just as much in character creation as it does on an item, and we all know what people would pay for an ammo slot item with +30 to almost any stat. The difference between the races is noticeable, it just isn't disqualifying.

I assumed this was aimed towards me but could have been wrong.
A page previous you mentioned dwarves are bad at soloing and are mainly for optimized raid toons. Human or elf were your suggestions for the ideal solo paladin.

No Time To Rez had a dwarf make it to 60 without dying, leveling in The Hole for the 50’s. Either they invested in like 2k worth of CHA gear or just dealt with it. Either way it’s fully possible.

I soloed a pally to 60, it was easy as an erudite even. No fungi, no dw bp, my narandi didn’t get upgraded until 59. I didn’t get the knight melee table upgraded or the scaling damage bonus until 60. If people struggle soloing these days I feel bad for them, but let’s not play this as a difficult task. It’s just a time consuming one.

Tl; Dr: yes, stats matter but aren’t gamebreaking/making. Agreed.

[sajbert]

I think Dwarf is fine. I’d wager high elf is best with top tier gear, if you don’t cap stats with BIS gear (which you will never get) then you will cap it with a primal aside from wis and cha which High Elf has the most of. Iirc dwarves do get 5MR though and they’ll have more dex meaning that (unless u cap with BIS gear which I think you don’t or you are dex buffed or unless you invest in beads to proc primal before a fight) dwarves proc primal a bit faster.

For the vast majority of players however a Dwarf has MUCH better melee stats at the cost of charisma. Dump all points into charisma and compensate with a Kobold Jester’s Crown + Glamour sword buff for pulls and you will be able to reach good cha with good velious gear. Pre-velious however I’d say you’d have a hard time getting good use out of lulling and I honestly don’t know why you’d play a paladin without lulls.

I guess Erudite can be a contender too, atrocious melee stats like High Elves but you get the MR bonus and your wisdom is decent and your charisma is not Dwarf levels of garbage.

[Ghost of Starman]

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think Dwarf is fine. I’d wager high elf is best with top tier gear, if you don’t cap stats with BIS gear (which you will never get) then you will cap it with a primal aside from wis and cha which High Elf has the most of. Iirc dwarves do get 5MR though and they’ll have more dex meaning that (unless u cap with BIS gear which I think you don’t or you are dex buffed or unless you invest in beads to proc primal before a fight) dwarves proc primal a bit faster.

For the vast majority of players however a Dwarf has MUCH better melee stats at the cost of charisma. Dump all points into charisma and compensate with a Kobold Jester’s Crown + Glamour sword buff for pulls and you will be able to reach good cha with good velious gear. Pre-velious however I’d say you’d have a hard time getting good use out of lulling and I honestly don’t know why you’d play a paladin without lulls.

I guess Erudite can be a contender too, atrocious melee stats like High Elves but you get the MR bonus and your wisdom is decent and your charisma is not Dwarf levels of garbage.

Human is the best choice for Pally, CHA is only 5 less than high elf but 20 more STR and 10 more STA. WIS is also quite good. You also have tons of great looking cultural options based on your religion choice. Dump your points in CHA if you wanna do dungeon stuff, or dump in WIS.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Ghost of Starman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Human is the best choice for Pally, CHA is only 5 less than high elf but 20 more STR and 10 more STA. WIS is also quite good. You also have tons of great looking cultural options based on your religion choice. Dump your points in CHA if you wanna do dungeon stuff, or dump in WIS.

Yea but 20 less wisdom. That's basically one extra celestial cleansing or half a Wave of Healing.

I think it's really splitting hairs here. Unlike SK's it's not massive stat swings with some paladins having slam.

[sajbert]

Originally Posted by Ghost of Starman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Human is the best choice for Pally, CHA is only 5 less than high elf but 20 more STR and 10 more STA. WIS is also quite good. You also have tons of great looking cultural options based on your religion choice. Dump your points in CHA if you wanna do dungeon stuff, or dump in WIS.

Human can be a contender too, if it's ultimately better than a High Elf will sort of depend on if you can cap relevant stats with full BIS.

High Elf wis is better than human, but once again depends on gear but even with full BIS I suspect you won't cap wis together with all the melee attributes.

Dwarves can't wear robes but both High Elves and Erudites and Humans can.

So in my view, ultimately Dwarves can't be the best race (even with the MR bonus) once you're dolled up in BIS or near BIS but that applies to very few players indeed. Until then however and as long as you compensate for your lack of cha in one way or another I think you'll do just fine.

[Ennewi]

Since it seems all racial distinctions are being considered, dwarves were the only classic paladin race that could wield the Butcherblock Hammer. Not that any player should pin their hopes on receiving an artifact now, but looking at the item from the OG developers' POV, no other paladin race was given a chance at those superior healing procs. A hail mary in terms of gearing a character, but technically classic so it's worth bringing it up in the conversation even as a footnote.

[Pint]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Since it seems all racial distinctions are being considered, dwarves were the only classic paladin race that could wield the Butcherblock Hammer. Not that any player should pin their hopes on receiving an artifact now, but looking at the item from the OG developers' POV, no other paladin race was given a chance at those superior healing procs. A hail mary in terms of gearing a character, but technically classic so it's worth bringing it up in the conversation even as a footnote.

But the butcher block hammer is negative 10 cha and as all the yahoos in this thread keep repeating you just gotta have that extra cha for leveling. Advising ppl who are new or casual that the stat they want on their paladin is cha is top tier lol. Not a single person itt has a clue what the actual statistical difference is between x cha number and the chance to crit resist a calm is. Spoiler alert 35 str is a significantly better stat then 35 cha for a casual melee trying to level and it's not even a competition.