Watched the Nag kill, is classic raiding just cheese?

[Wwen42]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only thing more tired than the oft-repeated calls for a new PvP server are the chorus of replies about how, "LOL RED IS DEAD, PVP IN EQ IS UNBALANCED AND TOTAL FAIL U MORAN." Invariably the people saying this know nothing about the history of Red and have never played on any EQ PvP server, classic or emulated.

The reality is that EQ PvP is literally more balanced than EQ PvE. All classes have a niche in EQ PvP, an area in which they can excel. Hybrids are particularly effective, whereas on a Blue server they are basically a joke. Wizards are useful for more than raid kills. Druids are extremely good. When you factor in PvP + PvE together EverQuest reaches its highest level of immersion and class balance.

The strange thing is that EQ as played on P1999 PvE is inherently a PvP game: the content itself is never the challenge, the only challenge is beating other players to that content. So these Blue players who decry PvP are totally incoherent, because they are actively engaged in competition against other players. They are just competing indirectly rather than directly. The PvP players simply prefer their competition to be more direct and concrete.

That might all be true, but for one reason or another no one is interested. Hell, look at WoW PvP. It's completely low-stakes, but people still chose to avoid those servers. Even the pops IN those servers usually avoid PvP. The only MMO that the PvP was the whole point is Eve Online in 0 security space where you have Corps and Alliances taking and hold space. (Warhammer made pvp a big part of it, but it's super dead)

You can promote PvP or Libertarians all you like, but we don't live in a culture that wants those things. And p1999 EQ PvP is a niche within a niche. You're better off trying to get family members on board than people already on PvE servers.

[Raclen]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It had some glory days I guess. It was several hundred for the launch and 200ish for a couple years I think. Red players blame server mechanics and some issues with certain staff members who aren't around any more for ruining the server. Blue players tend to blame red players "griefing" new players off the server. Once it fell below critical mass, it could never lure in more people and kept bleeding members.

I gave red two good tries in the past. Guilds were excited to have new players, leveling is fast, you got a lot of help getting caught up so you could participate in raids and fights at the upper end. Getting wrecked in PVP when you're by yourself is just another thing to get used to, part of the red eq game. Some people can't handle it. Some people didn't give it a legit try. Some people just don't like it.


Honestly anyone who complains about "ultra-griefers" is probably someone who insisted on leveling in unrest or uguk and bound at the zoneline and kept feeding themselves into the meat grinder of a shadowknight twink again and again because they'd rather bitch about it and quit than have any sort of intelligence or energy to try something different... like not sit in the biggest zone for a twink to feed on low level players all the time, or refrain from bitching a little bit so that other players don't hate you and actually will come help you out, or something along those lines.

I haven't played on a server where ultra griefers were a thing. There might be a twink that lives in MM but he would never leave that zone and you out level them in 1-2 days in another zone if you want.

As for numbers the red server had over 400 at launch. It had over 200 during Kunark and Velious as well. It had dips in between, especially during classic.

The balance thing isn't an issue. Every class is useful in pvp in some situation. It is very rock paper scissors. In doors, out doors, room to run around, pve mobs being involved. Even if you are not the best PvP class for a situation you may be required for a PvE encounter so therefor the good pvp classes on your team need to help you out.

[Wwen42]

Raid mechanics in EQ are pretty basic anyway. It's the stone-age compared to modern MMO encounters.

[Raclen]

Oh also the reason the red server has gone to nearly 0 is because:

1) With the low numbers rooted dragons made it impossible for the guilds left to do content easily.

2) PvP servers get stale and need some sort of seasons. The life of a PvP server without more expansions coming out is going to be capped at 2-3 years.

3) Rise of Zek is providing what Red99 doesn't and is coming out with a new server on December 13. PvPers that are aware of this have given up on Red99 until Rogean announces a new server.

[Widan]

Also Velious is not an expansion conducive to PvP because it forces you to raid (gross) or be severely under geared vs. those who do. Classic and Kunark do not have such gear imbalances.

[Lhord99]

Originally Posted by Widan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also Velious is not an expansion conducive to PvP because it forces you to raid (gross) or be severely under geared vs. those who do. Classic and Kunark do not have such gear imbalances.

I hear your point, certainly, but clicky DPS exists in a broken, broken way in Kunark.
Clicky Stun. Clicky 250 dmg cold nukes. Clicky 333 dmg fire nukes with ABSURD ranges. Clicky Fear. Clicky Snare. Clicky str/hp buffs. And, root nets (rechargeable) carry over from vanilla. That's all stat-free insanity.

[worm4real]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Red players want more players so their PVP is more fun. That's not rocket science.

And EQ PVP IS pretty well balanced. Just not in a moba/wow arena/1v1 sense like you're probably thinking of.

That's kind of the core issue with it though. After decades of PVPers trying to pitch it as a more pure and perfect experience I'm numb to those lines because all they want is more warm bodies. I don't like it and I feel like most other people don't.

[bwe]

nerf soulfire

[Izmael]

Pretty sure that if the PvP community made an effort to be seen as welcoming on the forums, the red server would be different.

90% of the posts from the red players are either cringy attempts at trolling, or trying to make them look better than the "bluebies". Very rarely a red player is being nice and friendly on the forums. No matter how much of a nerdy glass-wearing dweeb they are IRL they will constantly talk smack trying to sound "gangsta". I bet some of them literally reread their posts before clicking submit and remove punctuation and capitalization so they appear even more "hardcore'.

The literally only exceptions to this cringefest I can think of are Swish and Tala.

Guess this didn't work out too well for the server as noone seems to be impressed by how tough the red players are or is willing to hang out with them.

[Legidias]

Join PvP where you're lvl 1 and youre vs lvl 60's in raid gear