Increased Spawn Rates At Launch Means Exploitable Quests

[zodium]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This artificial "fix" may be a cure worse than the disease, because who knows what exploits it may create.

i lean towards this, but i applaud the attempt and even if it creates unforeseen problems it'll provide invaluable info about a problem that absolutely needs to be handled somehow for future green iterations.

also I love Sunderfury's post and take on it.

[zodias]

Qeynos Hills is not a good choice for increased spawns. There is to much there that is exploitable. Yes the it's the Surefall newbie yard but druids and rangers can and should go to NQ until 4 anyway.

Here's a list of exploitable things in the Qeynos Hills:
1. Rabid wolfs - quest Exp and PP
2. Rabid bears - quest Exp and PP
3. Putrid Skeletons - quest Exp and PP
4. Pyzjin - High value classic drop level 13 mob. Placeholder could be a level 25. but that's not a huge blocker
5. Hadden - High value classic drop level 28 mob. original spawn time is 6 hours this is brought down to around 1 hour with increased spawns.
6. Jagged Pine Crook. Increased spawns turn this into a decent exploitable cash farm.
7. Across all newbie yards with skeletons this is going to tank the bone chip market. And lets not forget that a couple bags of bone chips will get any new player to level 12 with the Kaladim quest.

A small group of dedicated players could drive the economy of the server into the ground for first month just hanging out in the Hills.

And lets not forget the 6 minute bard diet becomes the minute bard diet from levels 20 to 34. Possibly 12 to 34 as there are various reports of West Karana spawns being increased. Butcherblock dwarfs now are 1 minute spawns that are quad kiteable.

There are some zones that need increased spawns. Gfay, Toxx. But the fact is that most newbie zones are also high level xp spots for things like bard and guard killing. one could do bards to 34 in an insanely short time and then move to any of the guard spots. We'll have multiple 50's on the server within the first week.

I think the Devs have to assume that people are going to exploit this increased spawns. I think only way prevent the worst of the exploiting is to:
1. reduce it from 5x to 1.5 or 2x.
2. Removal of the bards, were their quests even classic launch?
3. Guard buff. All guards get summoning until increased spawns end.
4. auto kill some of the exploitable quest NPCs as they spawn until spawn rate normalizes. This sucks but might be needed. Yes some people will bank the drops but most of the items are not stack-able or lore.
5. Dynamic spawn rate increase. If a newbie zone gets to many people increase spawn rate to 2x/3x/4x/5x. depending on number of players. Say 30/60/90/120. as people level and move out of zones the spawns will normalize and make people not want to stay and exploit.


Just some thoughts

[Jadian]

Originally Posted by zodias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Qeynos Hills is not a good choice for increased spawns. There is to much there that is exploitable. Yes the it's the Surefall newbie yard but druids and rangers can and should go to NQ until 4 anyway.

Here's a list of exploitable things in the Qeynos Hills:
1. Rabid wolfs - quest Exp and PP
2. Rabid bears - quest Exp and PP
3. Putrid Skeletons - quest Exp and PP
4. Pyzjin - High value classic drop level 13 mob. Placeholder could be a level 25. but that's not a huge blocker
5. Hadden - High value classic drop level 28 mob. original spawn time is 6 hours this is brought down to around 1 hour with increased spawns.
6. Jagged Pine Crook. Increased spawns turn this into a decent exploitable cash farm.
7. Across all newbie yards with skeletons this is going to tank the bone chip market. And lets not forget that a couple bags of bone chips will get any new player to level 12 with the Kaladim quest.

A small group of dedicated players could drive the economy of the server into the ground for first month just hanging out in the Hills.

And lets not forget the 6 minute bard diet becomes the minute bard diet from levels 20 to 34. Possibly 12 to 34 as there are various reports of West Karana spawns being increased. Butcherblock dwarfs now are 1 minute spawns that are quad kiteable.

There are some zones that need increased spawns. Gfay, Toxx. But the fact is that most newbie zones are also high level xp spots for things like bard and guard killing. one could do bards to 34 in an insanely short time and then move to any of the guard spots. We'll have multiple 50's on the server within the first week.

I think the Devs have to assume that people are going to exploit this increased spawns. I think only way prevent the worst of the exploiting is to:
1. reduce it from 5x to 1.5 or 2x.
2. Removal of the bards, were their quests even classic launch?
3. Guard buff. All guards get summoning until increased spawns end.
4. auto kill some of the exploitable quest NPCs as they spawn until spawn rate normalizes. This sucks but might be needed. Yes some people will bank the drops but most of the items are not stack-able or lore.
5. Dynamic spawn rate increase. If a newbie zone gets to many people increase spawn rate to 2x/3x/4x/5x. depending on number of players. Say 30/60/90/120. as people level and move out of zones the spawns will normalize and make people not want to stay and exploit.


Just some thoughts

So much of this is just plain factually incorrect the rest is hardly worth addressing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[zodias]

Originally Posted by Jadian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So much of this is just plain factually incorrect the rest is hardly worth addressing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ok. i'd like see some factual corrections.

Fact is bard npcs that exist in a increased spawn newbie yard are on ~1 min timers. that covers 20 to 34. Some people have reported WK as having increased spawns as well which may be a bug as GM did state WK was not suppose to be increased. WK covers 12 to 20 bard leveling. A group of druids/necros/mages at 34 can start then killing ~1 min guard spawns in several zones, Misty, FP, BB.

Fact Feerott/Qeynos sewer spectres are in zones that have increased spawns. Sewers spectres drop a incredible pre planar rogue dagger as well.

Fact is you can right now log into green beta and make 100pp + an hour killing a level 4 mob that spawns in the same place every ~80 seconds. there are 2 or 3 of these lvl 4 wolf spots in the Hills that's 300pp/hr entering the economy within the first couple minutes of the server being up.

Fact from sun down to sun up Pyzjin will have a 5x more likely chance of spawning due to 5x as many spawns happening. The GBS is an incredibly high value classic item.

Fact Hadden being ~1hr spawn time will be a highly contested spawn. and the FBE which is a high value classic item will flood the server.

Fact several people have reported making 80+pp/hr doing jagged pine crooks.


The influx of low level plat will have a huge impact on the economy of the game. There will be little to spend money on early on but that cash will be horded.

Blacksmiths will make out like bandits because of the amount of plat players will have at low levels and the fact that they will need banded.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by zodias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ok. i'd like see some factual corrections.

Fact is bard npcs that exist in a increased spawn newbie yard are on ~1 min timers. that covers 20 to 34. Some people have reported WK as having increased spawns as well which may be a bug as GM did state WK was not suppose to be increased. WK covers 12 to 20 bard leveling. A group of druids/necros/mages at 34 can start then killing ~1 min guard spawns in several zones, Misty, FP, BB.

Fact Feerott/Qeynos sewer spectres are in zones that have increased spawns. Sewers spectres drop a incredible pre planar rogue dagger as well.

Fact is you can right now log into green beta and make 100pp + an hour killing a level 4 mob that spawns in the same place every ~80 seconds. there are 2 or 3 of these lvl 4 wolf spots in the Hills that's 300pp/hr entering the economy within the first couple minutes of the server being up.

Fact from sun down to sun up Pyzjin will have a 5x more likely chance of spawning due to 5x as many spawns happening. The GBS is an incredibly high value classic item.

Fact Hadden being ~1hr spawn time will be a highly contested spawn. and the FBE which is a high value classic item will flood the server.

Fact several people have reported making 80+pp/hr doing jagged pine crooks.


The influx of low level plat will have a huge impact on the economy of the game. There will be little to spend money on early on but that cash will be horded.

Blacksmiths will make out like bandits because of the amount of plat players will have at low levels and the fact that they will need banded.

Well to start with, Rogean already confirmed that the WK spawn times are operating as they normally do, so that's one incorrect statement by you.

People need to relax. You can increase spawn rate for specific mobs of a certain level range and exempt other mobs in that range from that increase, while leaving other mobs the same as usual. They aren't going to have non-newbie mobs spawning every minute. Chill.

[Tethler]

Originally Posted by zodias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fact several people have reported making 80+pp/hr doing jagged pine crooks.

I don't believe this figure. You need 2 different lore drops, and then you need to zone to SFG to turnin. The most I got from 1 turnin was like 4p and change. Also, the reward varies. One I turned in gave me 9g. The staff only vendors for 9s too. Doesn't add up.

[Glasken]

Originally Posted by zodias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Qeynos Hills is not a good choice for increased spawns. There is to much there that is exploitable. Yes the it's the Surefall newbie yard but druids and rangers can and should go to NQ until 4 anyway.

Here's a list of exploitable things in the Qeynos Hills:
1. Rabid wolfs - quest Exp and PP
2. Rabid bears - quest Exp and PP
3. Putrid Skeletons - quest Exp and PP
4. Pyzjin - High value classic drop level 13 mob. Placeholder could be a level 25. but that's not a huge blocker
5. Hadden - High value classic drop level 28 mob. original spawn time is 6 hours this is brought down to around 1 hour with increased spawns.
6. Jagged Pine Crook. Increased spawns turn this into a decent exploitable cash farm.
7. Across all newbie yards with skeletons this is going to tank the bone chip market. And lets not forget that a couple bags of bone chips will get any new player to level 12 with the Kaladim quest.

A small group of dedicated players could drive the economy of the server into the ground for first month just hanging out in the Hills.

And lets not forget the 6 minute bard diet becomes the minute bard diet from levels 20 to 34. Possibly 12 to 34 as there are various reports of West Karana spawns being increased. Butcherblock dwarfs now are 1 minute spawns that are quad kiteable.

There are some zones that need increased spawns. Gfay, Toxx. But the fact is that most newbie zones are also high level xp spots for things like bard and guard killing. one could do bards to 34 in an insanely short time and then move to any of the guard spots. We'll have multiple 50's on the server within the first week.

I think the Devs have to assume that people are going to exploit this increased spawns. I think only way prevent the worst of the exploiting is to:
1. reduce it from 5x to 1.5 or 2x.
2. Removal of the bards, were their quests even classic launch?
3. Guard buff. All guards get summoning until increased spawns end.
4. auto kill some of the exploitable quest NPCs as they spawn until spawn rate normalizes. This sucks but might be needed. Yes some people will bank the drops but most of the items are not stack-able or lore.
5. Dynamic spawn rate increase. If a newbie zone gets to many people increase spawn rate to 2x/3x/4x/5x. depending on number of players. Say 30/60/90/120. as people level and move out of zones the spawns will normalize and make people not want to stay and exploit.


Just some thoughts

...how long, exactly, do you think the increased spawn rate will be in? Bard diet wont be available for a few months into the server start, and exploitable mobs can have their own timers turned up or down along with a zone global. Put your pitchfork down.

[Deathrydar]

Originally Posted by Glasken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...how long, exactly, do you think the increased spawn rate will be in? Bard diet wont be available for a few months into the server start, and exploitable mobs can have their own timers turned up or down along with a zone global. Put your pitchfork down.

What is "bard diet?" Is that the MOBs on every single Necro guide to camp?

[Glasken]

Originally Posted by Deathrydar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What is "bard diet?" Is that the MOBs on every single Necro guide to camp?

More or less. Most, if not all, are part of the bard mail run quests, which were not in-game during launch. They have been removed from Green Beta as well. There is a bug post on it but I'm too lazy to go searching to link it.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Glasken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

More or less. Most, if not all, are part of the bard mail run quests, which were not in-game during launch. They have been removed from Green Beta as well. There is a bug post on it but I'm too lazy to go searching to link it.

To my knowledge, pretty much all of the 6 minute bard spawns referenced in that guide are not part of the mail quest (looking on the Wiki, it looks like only one of the 6 minute spawns has a mail quest in their Related Quests category). Unless the Wiki is wrong.

You're sure that those specific Bards from the guide (and not the other mail quest ones) are removed on Green Beta? For example, the Bard in Highkeep is a mail quest Bard, not a 6 minute Bard diet guide Bard.