Green Launch Hardcore Power Group

[skorge]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah if you're going to do 4 Mages you might as well make it 5. The Cleric won't be doing much, and with 5 Mage pets and an Enchanter you can basically just steamroll everything. I had a 5 Mage Sebilis group once and it was just ridiculous. And that was without a Chanter to back us up, and with stronger Kunark mobs and weaker relative 50+ pets. 5 Mages in Classic with a Chanter to feed them Clarity and CC for them will run roughshod over all groupable content. There will be no need for a Cleric because everything will be dying so fast, and when one pet dies there are four more to take agro while the Mage just re-summons another one for 200 mana. And if you get 5 air pets the mobs will basically be basically stunlocked the entire time and doing no damage anyway.

Listen. This is the reason Green needs to launch with pets not having abilities, lol...people getting mad about this straight up fact, that pets did not possess ability at launch. The reality is none of you actually played magicians at launch of EQ in April of 1999 to know this. So you have no clue just how bad mage pets were at launch. They sucked balls. They weren't even pets in game post 20 until a couple months in.

Verant knew pets were OP at lower levels. It wasn't until 2-3 months in that they gave them spells. There is proof from Brad himself stating this. I have made another thread about this. Most people don't want to accept it as they plan to play thinking their pets are OP in vanilla.

If you want to play a true OP class pick necro. Their pets were better than mage pets if you gave them 2 daggers.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by skorge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Most people don't want to accept it as they plan to play thinking their pets are OP in vanilla.

If you want to play a true OP class pick necro. Their pets were better than mage pets if you gave them 2 daggers.

Except they will be OP, because Mage pets will have abilities from launch and there will be pets past level 20. So it's not some sort of mistaken "thinking" on the part of the players.

Further, there are multiple things like this that didn't exist at launch in 1999 simply due to lack of development resources and/or bugs. There's no reason to replicate something like that as of Green launch.

[skorge]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Except they will be OP, because Mage pets will have abilities from launch and there will be pets past level 20. So it's not some sort of mistaken "thinking" on the part of the players.

Further, there are multiple things like this that didn't exist at launch in 1999 simply due to lack of development resources and/or bugs. There's no reason to replicate something like that as of Green launch.

Problem with your statement is that pet spells were considered "enhancement to the class" by Brad himself...you know the guy who created Everquest? Meaning that these were not a bug or lack of development resources. See bold in quote below. At the time they only wanted higher pets to cast spells apparently. So, no, not a bug bro.

Magicians
+ New summon item spells
- High Level (39+) Pets weakened
+ Better mid+ level pets (they cast spells now)
+ Added more Class Specific Quests
+ Added more Class Specific Items
+ Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
+ Magician Pet Buff Spells Strengthened
+ Enhanced Pet Pathing
+ Added Special Items to let Magicians Summon Stronger Pets
+ Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
through your pet
+ Made Magician Research Easier - especially for their pets
+ Added Spell Effects to most Magician Summoned Items
+ Enhanced AoE Spells to let Magicians effect more creatures
+ Reduced Mana Cost of Damage Shields
+ Reduced Casting Time of Ward Series
+ Made the Malise Series Stack Better
+ Made the Burnout Series Better

-Brad

[cd288]

Originally Posted by skorge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Problem with your statement is that pet spells were considered "enhancement to the class" by Brad himself...you know the guy who created Everquest? Meaning that these were not a bug or lack of development resources. See bold in quote below. At the time they only wanted higher pets to cast spells apparently. So, no, not a bug bro.

I don't see a reason why you would revert on something that was fixed because it was really poorly designed. The changes were made because they designed things poorly and realized they'd messed up. If they'd known that at launch, they would have implemented at launch. Reverting things back to poor design at launch that made a class practicably unplayable past a certain level is a really pointless exercise to do "just because", "bro".

You would think someone who acts so knowledgeable about EQ would realize that mobs can be voice grafted and not run to Befallen and spread the word that the GM event is below level 10 only.

[soronil]

Originally Posted by skorge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Problem with your statement is that pet spells were considered "enhancement to the class" by Brad himself...you know the guy who created Everquest? Meaning that these were not a bug or lack of development resources. See bold in quote below. At the time they only wanted higher pets to cast spells apparently. So, no, not a bug bro.

Give it up dude. If you can't provide sufficient proof, and no one has provided sufficient proof in the last TEN YEARS with regards to the state of magicians at launch, including what were the changes and when they were made, you're beating a dead horse.

Wanting magicians to be weak at launch does not make it so. They will be OP.

[sciception]

Yeah, but I'd be willing to play Enchanter and give the Cleric something to do =) Hell I'll add the DPS of two mage pets the second I get Charm at 12.
Anything is fine though, you already have my Cleric friend in group so I will fill whatever roll.

[NachtMystium]

Green has awoken uncharted levels of autism, be prepared. This is only the beginning.

[cd288]

Idk, to each their own I suppose, but this just doesn’t sound very fun. Cheesing mage pet mechanics from 4-50 sounds extremely boring. Having to stick to a specific step by step plan sounds pretty rigid and boring as well.

I’m looking forward to playing a class I haven’t played before. Grinding up from nothing. Making long trips to complete quests and/or kill mobs for certain gear drops. As such, this group idea sounds like something that couldn’t be less fun.

[Lojik]

There were some posts about only 4 pets being able to attack at a time on a bug thread I think, so maybe they want to keep it to 4 mages just in case? IDK.

[AbstractVision]

Originally Posted by Lojik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There were some posts about only 4 pets being able to attack at a time on a bug thread I think, so maybe they want to keep it to 4 mages just in case? IDK.

This is a real possibility as there was solid evidence presented. I wouldn't be surprised to find it in on green to curb mage armies.

The reason for the cleric/druid is for utility, the pets are able to tank and spank bigger mobs with cleric buffs and heals. The added dps from one more pet doesn't really matter when we will be throwing nukes/stuns anyways. Once cleric gets rez it saves us downtime on the enchanter who will probably die a couple times and god forbid we get trained (because no one would purposely do that on green right? ) the cleric can double DA and survive to get the group rolling again. Also if we have double death penalties for the first 4 months as is classic, deaths will be brutal.

If we ended up with a druid, its port utility later on when the people who rush start catching up to each other and gives our backup plans more viability. Evac is nice, but we all have gate anyways. The druid can charm certain pets as well through mid game for a 6 pet group.

TL;DR One more mage could be useful, it could also be pointless. Cleric/druid is useful utility all the way.


Still looking for a few more people able to put in a serious time commitment. We're only two weeks away. Just having a group that is willing to put in this kind of time is going to be a huge advantage. Feel free to send a PM if you'd rather not post here.