Why are p99 devs trying to make Green non-classic and ignoring proof?

[Zeboim]

As we all know, this community has shown an immense ability to police itself and restrain its neckbeardiest elements.

[Canelek]

Valley trash complains about games he doesn't want to play. Good work!

[Jimjam]

Not sure what OP is even mad about. Neither blue nor green follow the 2000 PNP.

Pre-PNP (1999) GMs were free to enforce their server as they saw fit, whether through neglect or meddling.

P1999 chosing meddling is 100% classic. Sorry you played on a neglect server (which would also have been 100% classic if the people making the CSR decisions had decided to go down that route).

If anything you should be mad the 2000 PNP isn't enforced on blue and you ahould be mad we aren't strong armed into sharing via 'turn taking' on EVERYTHING.

[Daud]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not sure what OP is even mad about.

I'm not sure why people think OP is mad. Having a different opinion, one with at least some historical support, doesn't make someone mad.

I don't want what OP posted about, but, I also don't get the name calling dog pile that's going on or why it's being allowed to continue. Y'all seem to not understand who's actually being shitty in this thread because it isn't OP.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Daud [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not sure why people think OP is mad. Having a different opinion, one with at least some historical support, doesn't make someone mad.

This is true, and if there was just this thread in isolation I'd 100% agree with you. Minority opinions are great, and are too often "shouted down" here.

... but that's not what's happened in this case. Far from being "shouted down", OP has been trying to hijack every Green thread for the past month or so to argue over this Green decision. He feels very passionately (mad) about.

[Daud]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is true, and if there was just this thread in isolation I'd 100% agree with you. Minority opinions are great, and are too often "shouted down" here.

... but that's not what's happened in this case. Far from being "shouted down", OP has been trying to hijack every Green thread for the past month or so to argue over this Green decision. He feels very passionately (mad) about.

Out of curiosity, I looked through his post history for that last couple weeks since you mentioned it and he's not name calling on the same level that is happening in this thread. He isn't writing paragraphs of condescending trolling like you are, or calling people aspy, sociopath, trash, or a dickhead, and all the rest on in this thread that's been thrown at him. That seems to be mostly on you guys.

As far as "hijacking", he's got one or two posts in most threads, and if it isn't talking about green he doesn't bring it up. The times he does being up the PNP/DPS race shit, it's at the very least tangentially related to the thread subject or it's responses and again, only a couple posts. Sorry, I'm really just not seeing anything super unreasonable to just justify giving all you guys a free pass to shit all over a Server Chat thread. If he was spamming a bunch of mindless shit like red posters, sure, I could see what you mean, but it isn't even close.

I don't know the guy, I don't even agree with his opinions, but what you're saying doesn't seem to be happening in his post history, at least for the last month like you stated. The only reason I even took notice on this was your response in particular. You're a pretty level headed and helpful guy in these forums, but in this case you seem to be vastly, vastly, overstating OP's post history and just running with the mob. It's just overall really strange. Usually I'd report and move on, but this forum doesn't seem to have a report function (unless I'm really just missing it). There should have been some forum vacation time for a lot of you instead of just a move to RNF regardless of how you felt about a literal handful or two of OP's posts in the past month.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Daud [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He isn't writing paragraphs of condescending trolling like you are

Originally Posted by Daud [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As far as "hijacking", he's got one or two posts in most threads, and if it isn't talking about green he doesn't bring it up. The times he does being up the PNP/DPS race shit, it's at the very least tangentially related to the thread subject or it's responses and again, only a couple posts.

Originally Posted by Daud [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but in this case you seem to be vastly, vastly, overstating OP's post history and just running with the mob. It's just overall really strange.

In all honesty, it sounds like you didn't really try very hard. I don't blame you: reading the random posting history of random posters isn't the most fun thing in the world, and that's even more true when the poster in question endlessly talks about something dumb like eliminating the PnP.

But look, I have absolutely nothing against Zura or any other poster in particular that I can think of ATM. I have had some beefs with people over the years (eg. Mick, Scarred Child), but they've all been the sort of people who eventually got themselves banned, so today I have nothing personal against anyone (that I can remember at least ... I do smoke a lot of pot).

But, I very much noticed a pattern in Zura's posting. As you said, they'd find a thread about Green, find some tangential angle to bring up his "get rid of the PnP" idea, and then he'd reply to (pretty much literally) every response to his idiotic idea. Very quickly the thread would become yet another "everyone vs. Zura" argument over the PnP.

To be clear, changing a thread topic (on purpose or on accident) is not wrong. Arguing forcefully, even for a losing position, is not wrong (clearly if I didn't agree with that I would never defend rotations in RnF). But when you display a consistent pattern of taking over other people's thread, forcing the exact same conversation to happen, and then not even really having a conversation at all, just yelling until everyone gives up trying to communicate with you ... that's rude.

Zura has something they feel passionately about. They really want a PnP-less Green. Lots of nerds here feel uber-passionate about their stupid nerdy thing (/cough the wiki /cough). I have no issue with passionate nerds.

What I do have an issue with is someone interjecting their pet topic, over and over and over again, into threads that previously were about something else ... and then NOT DIALOGUING IN ANY OF THEM. Never once did Zura ever listen to anyone in any of those threads. He also never once changed a single mind of a single person reading ... because he wasn't trying to.

All he wanted to do was take over any Green thread he saw and then (virtually) shout as loud and as hard as he could about his pet topic, knowing full well that no one had any interest in what he had to say (because they'd told him as much in the last five threads), and not actually trying to engage or sway anyone, just yelling a lot. And that bugged me.

[Jadian]

Originally Posted by Daud [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not sure why people think OP is mad. Having a different opinion, one with at least some historical support, doesn't make someone mad.

I don't want what OP posted about, but, I also don't get the name calling dog pile that's going on or why it's being allowed to continue. Y'all seem to not understand who's actually being shitty in this thread because it isn't OP.

For fucks sake this stupid red pilling shit needs to stop, now it's part of everquest too?

We get it you morons, there's "good people" on both sides.

Except in these types of discussion one side is always being completely fucking disingenuous of why they want what they're saying. You want shit to be better for you in a specific circumstance? Fine, say that and end the discussion there, quit trying to lawyer your position into something it isn't.

This dude wants to be able to steal from anyone he wants and have it be ok. In a few months he'll be complaining about all the "carebears" who don't wanna play with him. It's his own shitty fucking attitude and lack of cooperation that ends in both of these circumstances, he's not just "exploring ideas" or some bullshit like that.

[Dolalin]

Originally Posted by Jadian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This dude wants to be able to steal from anyone he wants and have it be ok. In a few months he'll be complaining about all the "carebears" who don't wanna play with him. It's his own shitty fucking attitude and lack of cooperation that ends in both of these circumstances, he's not just "exploring ideas" or some bullshit like that.

[Ghilran]

Did none of you played on official TLPs servers? PNP was famously not enforced on these servers AND a lot of them had a boxing problem. Bottom l line is it never was much of a problem for most of the content, and was really only visible on the raid scene where DPS races were the norm. I've never been a fan of those but they are arguably as good a way to distribute loot as FTE is.