Paladin stats & race

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I haven't played in a few months (I like my EQ addiction intermittent)

Same, nearing three months here of no EQ.

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but the orb/mallet nerf should have made Knights clearly superior for tanking most ToV/Kunark NPCs, and the rooted Lords and Ladies should have increased the amount of random drakes and wurms everyone is fighting. Together these should lead to a lot more Knight tanking. Have the players failed to adapt here?

Ah right, that. Honestly, I haven't the slightest idea. My experience in ToV is a bit dated, but during that time the underlying issue was an overabundance of Warriors, most of which were assigned to groups with healers outside of the main rotation. By default, and understandably, knights were left with their thumbs up their asses, thumbs extracted only when there were mobs to goaly, auto-attack, or loot. There were exceptions for knights in ToV, but few and far between back then. It seems likely that this has since changed; if not, than it should once the skill table adjustments have been made.

Guess it's about time to log in and shake the ol' sock out again.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by White_knight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you're missing the entire point: so let me explain in Layman's terms:

The point isn't just to have a larger mana pool, it's to have a larger mana pool to be expended when needed.

i.e sacrificing a potential larger mana pool for what essentially would be a small bump in tanking capacity. That 1400 AC is useless when you're OOM because you have 2k mana pool, and your healer is OOM. The difference between having 1200ac and 1400 ac on a normal tiered dungeon mobs isn't going to send your healer bust on mana.

Having a larger mana pool ALSO extends the duration you can stay in the fight when it's quite mana intensive, i.e chanter dies, and you have 6 mobs in camp and you're rooting and poping off heals to keep everyone topped off while tanking.

Now do you see the point?





It's a good question.

You're not looking at an massive difference in damage reduction from 1200ac - 1400 ac on normal tiered mobs, it's not a 700ac -1200ac type comparison.

Ultimately a larger mana pooled Paladin would benefit the SHM/PAL/MNK trio way more than a high AC Paladin as you'd be burning more mana CCing, and stunning mobs till they are slowed to reduce incoming damage taken.

Mana regen is a problem, always will be for Knights who burn through mana, but regardless of the how much mana you have there will always be a period where you arse is on the ground medding, or you're relying on candy buffs to get that blue bar back up.

I'm not missing the point; you're missing the point. The larger mana pool is a one trick pony, unless each time you dip into that extra mana you are willing to spend extra time medding just to regain that surplus.

My suggested path for if the enchanter dies: just soothe everything then cover the cleric on heals while she gets everything atoned.

To be honest I find your advice conflicting. On one hand, you say a paladin should be an active user of spells (which increasing mana pool doesn't even help), but now you are saying the mana pool is for emergency situations where depth of pool is more important than regen... Which is it? Because if you are spurging out your mana in general play you might not have it in an emergency.

You criticise other knights for doing the minimum expenditure to keep aggro; have you considered this is a strategy to keep mana at 97% so it is available when they really need it?

[Troxx]

Minimum necessary to ensure you hold aggro is the best way knights can functionally balance their mana. 60-200 less mana use unnecessarily per fight is a lot more important than having an extra large mana reserve. Our mana regen is poor. We really only have external buffs and meditate unless you have some high end FT items. I don’t know about the groups others roll with but I’m lucky if I have the chance to catch a few quick Med ticks between fights.

Using lots of mana always just means you have to sit on your arse that much longer to get it back. My goal is always minimum necessary to get the job done well while keeping a strong enough reserve that I can stun whenever needed, help emergency root as needed, and toss heals around (self and others) to save a life or ease the burden of the healer.

[Crede]

I put starting stats into wisdom into my pally and regretted in in the 50s when I realized all you need is Mana Regen. And if you’re constantly dumping your mana in a raid scene then you shoulda just made a cleric.

Dex all day IMO. Plenty of nice dex/ac items out there. More procs, more aggro, more mana saved by more procs, more fun.

[Pint]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I haven't played in a few months (I like my EQ addiction intermittent) but the orb/mallet nerf should have made Knights clearly superior for tanking most ToV/Kunark NPCs, and the rooted Lords and Ladies should have increased the amount of random drakes and wurms everyone is fighting. Together these should lead to a lot more Knight tanking. Have the players failed to adapt here?

The orb/mallet nerf seemed like it did more damage to casted aggro then clicky aggro. AM hasn't missed a beat using mallets for aggro that I've noticed.

[White_knight]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I put starting stats into wisdom into my pally and regretted in in the 50s when I realized all you need is Mana Regen. And if you’re constantly dumping your mana in a raid scene then you shoulda just made a cleric.

Dex all day IMO. Plenty of nice dex/ac items out there. More procs, more aggro, more mana saved by more procs, more fun.

Yup if I ever make another Pally I am going to try a dex build. I think a 200 dex build is 2nd on the list of credible builds. Done an AC build, doing a wisdom build now.

Mana regen will always be a dilemma for knights, afaik we werent always meant to be standing unless we just cast the minimum spells required to function - tapping those sweet 10 mana spells that make hybrid tanking a sinch.

[White_knight]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Deep mana pockets help on raid targets where you won’t be tanking anyways. In this scenario deeper pockets means more heals; something we do quite well both on ourselves and what we have to offer others. Don’t get me wrong I’m a fan of paladin mana and personally prioritize it above stamina. But ac? No. As has already been stated, we’re tanks. Damage mitigation is critical to how well we do our job every single time we get hit.

In most content knights are not limited by mana pool - it’s mana recovery. Deeper pockets just means it takes you longer to fill back up.

TLDR? You’ve made some pretty terrible decisions with regards to specific armor slots. Str/wis 0 ac mask is chief among them.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Crystal_Spider_Eyes

A bit less wisdom but also 8ac 35hp/mana

I’m not dogging you for prioritizing wisdom, it’s how you seem to have such tunnel vision that it’s led you to wear some really bad pieces when there are more balanced options out there.

You're trying to criticize an armor list someone spent a few minutes to compile awhile back and edited a day or so ago to update a bit here an there, that's a good tip I will add it it later.

Let's again state: I dont play 10 hrs a day 7 days a week, I started to compile a list of gear that would be attainable by a normal player (not a high end raider). I have 7k plat in the bank, I dont have time to farm endlessly. Progression is slow. My Paladin is level 55 after 4 years.

Your concept of Paladins is fixated on raiding, this is why you are having a poor time trying to understand.

Less than 1% of Paladins on this server probably participate actively in raids, and usually are there only to cast our DS buff. Of those 1% Paladins probably 5-10 have ever tanked raid mobs in the last few years.

So hope that helps frame things up for you and might help you understand a little better.

[White_knight]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not missing the point; you're missing the point. The larger mana pool is a one trick pony, unless each time you dip into that extra mana you are willing to spend extra time medding just to regain that surplus.

My suggested path for if the enchanter dies: just soothe everything then cover the cleric on heals while she gets everything atoned.

To be honest I find your advice conflicting. On one hand, you say a paladin should be an active user of spells (which increasing mana pool doesn't even help), but now you are saying the mana pool is for emergency situations where depth of pool is more important than regen... Which is it? Because if you are spurging out your mana in general play you might not have it in an emergency.

You criticise other knights for doing the minimum expenditure to keep aggro; have you considered this is a strategy to keep mana at 97% so it is available when they really need it?

Doesnt make sense my dude: how does not having a larger mana pool not help someone when burning their mana, you sure this what you mean?

Also Pacify is a 100 mana spell, if sucessful its going to cost you 600 mana to pac 6 mobs as you described, calm is 50 mana spell so 250 mana but only works up to level 50 mobs - if you had to pacify 2x times thats 1200 mana, seems like that emergency larger mana pool would be needed after all.

You keep rattling on about mana regen too: it's a terrible arguement because mana regen is available to both spec builds - mana regen isnt exclusive to a certain build type - I dont get what this point is??
What your describing is a false economy of mana: a smaller pool regens quicker? Guess what? You're getting the exact same regen with a larger pool too, it's just when you hit 100% mana a wisdom/mana built paladin hits 60% mana.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by White_knight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's again state: I dont play 10 hrs a day 7 days a week, I started to compile a list of gear that would be attainable by a normal player (not a high end raider). I have 7k plat in the bank, I dont have time to farm endlessly. Progression is slow. My Paladin is level 55 after 4 years.

Your concept of Paladins is fixated on raiding, this is why you are having a poor time trying to understand.

Less than 1% of Paladins on this server probably parricipate actively in raids, and usually are there only to cast our DS buff. Of those 1% Paladins probably 5-10 have ever tanked raid mobs in the last few years.

So hope that helps frames things up for you and might help you understand a little better.

You’re the one who touted having a 1400 ac Paladin on red. None of my characters have come close to such stupidly high numbers. They likely won’t ever for that matter. I’m not fixated on raiding. Quite the opposite. The point is that outside of raiding, high mana is not as cute as you think it is. For day to day paladin activity that extra mana is a waste. You will have precisely 0 extra spell casting potential than a lower mana pool knight unless you plan on sitting on your ass for long stretches. I, however, prefer to have more up time. We both regenerate mana at the same rate — and that’s the bottleneck.

You rolled into this thread linking your magelo and asking what the first thing people noticed it was. You might have thought people would fawn over your high wisdom but really the only thing extraordinary about that magelo was your bad ac and really goofy fucking gear choices [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The degree to which you get defensive on this topic is comical.

[Varren]

I’m no paladin, but I do appreciate a good one.

Its true that paladins all regen mana at the same rate, barring those with flowing thought, but a larger mana pool is clearly better. I’d rather my reservoir be deep on any casting class, though. Size up the real difference AC will give you in a given situation. I would imagine having a wis build and an ac build depending on the group would be best.