P99 Sky Agreement - why its bad for the server

[Baylan295]

Originally Posted by sereal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seems like the core problem is that if you don't have a sky slot there isn't a obvious process to get one. Just because you're a farm crew doesn't mean you don't deserve a equal opportunity.

There’s a very obvious process to get one. There are three open slots. Pick one. Or go and kill mobs during one of those open times. Don’t like the fact it doesn’t fit your play schedule? I don’t like that every major raid mob in the game has a 16 hour window.

This entire thread is a disingenuous attempt to help people that want to sell and bottleneck epic pieces and rare sky drops. Name *one* guild that wants to do sky regularly that doesn’t get to do so - I haven’t seen a name yet.

And I have also seen zero evidence that unnamed guild has taken any affirmative steps to ask any other guild to tag along in order to do sky.

No one is saying that farm crews don’t “deserve” an equal opportunity, but the entire argument is disingenuous and has been framed as a way of helping people when it’s BS as far as I can tell.

[MagpieRockyl]

sky... it really sucks

[Canelek]

Another reason is Sky is horribly boring and time consuming. A rotation is great so folks can get in and do the needful, so to speak. Haste and epic parts are too valuable to not hit sky up regularly.

That said, the last thing this server needs is an opportunity for a farm crew to further bottleneck things.

Player agreements sometimes are the only way to enforce civility. Also, yeah sky rotation is classic for many.

[Jauna]

I think its time to say fuck it and form one mega guild or have GM forced rotations. Punishment for breaking the rotation is having your pixels deleted, start with epics and move on down

[Bummey]

man it must be unfortunate to not have access to certain mobs you need for your epic. boy, must be hard playing on this server and not being able to get something on your own. buy an epic mq? perish the thought

awakened and aftermath get really mad when they can't control something

[planarity]

Originally Posted by Bummey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

man it must be unfortunate to not have access to certain mobs you need for your epic. boy, must be hard playing on this server and not being able to get something on your own. buy an epic mq? perish the thought

awakened and aftermath get really mad when they can't control something

"getting a torpor or a necromancer epic is hard and it's shitty when guilds lock others out from these things, so sky should also be shitty and we should have the ability to lock people out from sky (with GM enforcement) out of spite" basically sums up this argument as well as similar arguments from loramin and others. There are some decent arguments for the sky rotation, but this isn't one of them.

What do I mean by "lock people out of sky"? Well what I mean is Bummey petitioning me and my friends for going up one day a couple weeks ago in <Clue>'s slot, when they had already decided not to go and in fact their sky raids had been "indefinitely suspended" for weeks already. For some reason the GMs went along with this and suspended our toons for a week. Here is some more info for the curious. (Of course after that debacle, <Clue> was basically forced to start going back up again and so they've started to do that.)

What do I mean "out of spite"? Well here are some quotes from a convo I had with Bummey after the fact:

"I would not have assented to your presence in Sky on our night, regardless of our attendance."
"People like you have been running roughshod over this server and the majority of its member base going on a decade now and it is not acceptable. [because I was in one of the top guilds once]"
"You know what you and your ilk[sic] do to this server and its players."

We didn't ask for <Clue>'s permission because who would have dreamed we needed it? I spoke to a friendly clue member. First I asked for an officer just because they generally have more idea what's going on, he told me there weren't any officers around but assured me that clue hadn't been doing sky lately at all and definitely wouldn't be going on that day. That was enough for me (and any reasonable person), and even the friendly clue member agreed:

"well.. srry bout what happened.. they made a big deal in gmotd that sky was put on hold for a while. .so figured it wasnt a big deal"
"aye.. dont see that u guys did anything wrong really.. ..but thats me.. ".

This concept of guilds having so much ownership of their sky slots that they can veto other people from killing the mobs when they won't be killing them themselves (and won't even be entering the zone at all) is totally new and obviously absurd. (Disagree? Name a precedent.) Instead, it should be the norm (if not a rule) that guilds who know they won't be using their slot for a given week should say so publicly so that others can go. If you want to improve the sky rotation, start there. It's worth talking about other ways that the sky rotation could be improved/updated, and maybe I'll give my 2 cents in another post later, but I wanted to clear up some misconceptions and call out some hypocrisy.

For the record, it isn't perfect but I have always been OK with the sky rotation (I used to lead the sky raids for <Rampage> and other guilds) and have always been happy to go along with it until a new scheme is put in place. This is true in spite of Loramin's literally dozens of assertions in the reddit thread like that we "decide[d] the rules don't apply to [us]" and so on. We haven't and wouldn't have gone during a slot that was going to be used, and I'll leave it to the readers of this thread to come to their own conclusions about whether that's respecting the current agreement or not. I know he will try this trick again so I wanted to inb4.

Also for the record, we weren't a "farm crew", just some people who needed sky drops for our characters with no intentions of selling anything, although I don't see anything wrong with selling some drops that you don't need (for those interested, Bummey is selling necro epic cloaks and has one for sale and "two in the wings").


Best,

Planarity/Unicity

[Swish2]

Originally Posted by planarity [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What do I mean by "lock people out of sky"? Well what I mean is Bummey petitioning me and my friends for going up one day a couple weeks ago in <Clue>'s slot, when they had already decided not to go...

Sounds like he's not the only one [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by planarity [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"getting a torpor or a necromancer epic is hard and it's shitty when guilds lock others out from these things, so sky should also be shitty and we should have the ability to lock people out from sky (with GM enforcement) out of spite" basically sums up this argument as well as similar arguments from loramin and others. There are some decent arguments for the sky rotation, but this isn't one of them.

What do I mean by "lock people out of sky"? Well what I mean is Bummey petitioning me and my friends for going up one day a couple weeks ago in <Clue>'s slot, when they had already decided not to go and in fact their sky raids had been "indefinitely suspended" for weeks already. For some reason the GMs went along with this and suspended our toons for a week. Here is some more info for the curious. (Of course after that debacle, <Clue> was basically forced to start going back up again and so they've started to do that.)

What do I mean "out of spite"? Well here are some quotes from a convo I had with Bummey after the fact:


We didn't ask for <Clue>'s permission because who would have dreamed we needed it? I spoke to a friendly clue member. First I asked for an officer just because they generally have more idea what's going on, he told me there weren't any officers around but assured me that clue hadn't been doing sky lately at all and definitely wouldn't be going on that day. That was enough for me (and any reasonable person), and even the friendly clue member agreed:


This concept of guilds having so much ownership of their sky slots that they can veto other people from killing the mobs when they won't be killing them themselves (and won't even be entering the zone at all) is totally new and obviously absurd. (Disagree? Name a precedent.) Instead, it should be the norm (if not a rule) that guilds who know they won't be using their slot for a given week should say so publicly so that others can go. If you want to improve the sky rotation, start there. It's worth talking about other ways that the sky rotation could be improved/updated, and maybe I'll give my 2 cents in another post later, but I wanted to clear up some misconceptions and call out some hypocrisy.

For the record, it isn't perfect but I have always been OK with the sky rotation (I used to lead the sky raids for <Rampage> and other guilds) and have always been happy to go along with it until a new scheme is put in place. This is true in spite of Loramin's literally dozens of assertions in the reddit thread like that we "decide[d] the rules don't apply to [us]" and so on. We haven't and wouldn't have gone during a slot that was going to be used, and I'll leave it to the readers of this thread to come to their own conclusions about whether that's respecting the current agreement or not. I know he will try this trick again so I wanted to inb4.

Also for the record, we weren't a "farm crew", just some people who needed sky drops for our characters with no intentions of selling anything, although I don't see anything wrong with selling some drops that you don't need (for those interested, Bummey is selling necro epic cloaks and has one for sale and "two in the wings").


Best,

Planarity/Unicity

For what it's worth, and even though I will give you the 'farm crew' ribbing, I actually am on your side.

Petitioning for 'depriving clue of their slot' is crying wolf. Clue holding on to an unused sky slot is zone monopolisation. Repeatedly failing to use their slot is Clue breaking the sky rotation agreement.

Enjoy your 30, 40 and 50 day consecutive raid bans from Planarity's counter petitions, Clue!

(Planarity plz don't counter petition, I doubt the GMs share this perspective and we don't want you to eat another ban [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.])

[Bummey]

you sound mad

[elwing]

Still wondering why this is not in RnF... I don't see anything constructive there, pure rant...