Gamebreaking items.

[Nikkanu]

Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

270hp heal*
Torpor recast time is 6 seconds, faster than 7 seconds
Torpor lasts 4 ticks which is every 6 seconds, essentially making it endless as you can start casting with 6s left.
Can cast spells with torp active. Can't cast spells while casting this clickie spell.

Nice try but not quite. If it was Celestial Elixir, Superior Healing or Chloroblast you may have a case, but it's not.

270*4=1080 in 28s
300*4=1200 in 19s to 24s (heals happen on server ticks)

You clearly and demonstrably don't know what you're talking about.

Greater Healing for Cleric is 300.

Cast time on VP Staff is 7 seconds. Recast time is 0 (being a clicky).

Cast time on Torpor is 6 seconds. Recast time is 6 seconds.

Torpor costs 200 mana, VP staff is 0 mana.

If you got super lucky and Torpor landed less than 1 second before a server tick it would take ~23 seconds to heal for 1200 (6 sec cast) + (3 * 6 sec ticks). If you got unlucky and torpor landed right after a server tick it could take up to ~30 secs (6 sec cast) + (4*6 sec ticks). This is of course not taking into consideration potential fizzles (which being a clicky VP staff can't fizzle)


The correct math is:

VP Staff: 300*4=1200 in 28sec for 0 Mana
Torpor: 300*4=1200 in ~23-30sec for 200+ Mana (depending on fizzles)

Plus:

• Sustaining the same amount of healing over a long duration fight with Torpor would require precision timing on recasts, great luck with fizzles, constant Canni spamming (which means you have to heal yourself too) meaning you can't do anything but Torpor + Canni Spam. Where with the VP Staff just requires mindless spamming and no chance of fizzles or need to heal yourself. At any point the cleric can simply not click the staff to cast another spell and only lose a tick or two at most of staff heals.
  
• You can infinitely spam VP staff and never run out of mana.
  
• Not having to sit to med nearly as much means fewer chances for sit aggro.
  
• A shaman can only cast Torpor X number of times (varies depending on mana pool and fizzles) before going OOM and having to Canni, at which time Torpor spam becomes even less efficient.
  
• You can cast Celestial Elixir (300 mana) and then spam click VP staff and have essentially double the healing of Torpor for only 50% more mana.
  
• Torpor has snare + melee slow, VP staff does not.
  
• Being a cleric there are many other tools at your disposal that a shaman doesn't get. Most notably CH, DA/DB, Rez, etc. Really the only utility a shaman has over a cleric for killing high end mobs is Slow, which can be nullified by high MR mobs or simply bad luck with RNG on Slow resists.

I also have the option of dropping a Celestial Elixir for 300 mana and then VP staff spamming to get ~100% more healing than torpor for 50% more mana.

Since VP staff is mana-free and not subject to fizzles. I can duo/trio/small group the same mobs that would require slow + torpor on my shaman to duo/trio/small group without slowing (and having to worry about getting screwed over by RNG with slow resists).

[Baylan295]

Originally Posted by Nikkanu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You clearly and demonstrably don't know what you're talking about.

Greater Healing for Cleric is 300.

Cast time on VP Staff is 7 seconds. Recast time is 0 (being a clicky).

Cast time on Torpor is 6 seconds. Recast time is 6 seconds.

Torpor costs 200 mana, VP staff is 0 mana.

If you got super lucky and Torpor landed less than 1 second before a server tick it would take ~23 seconds to heal for 1200 (6 sec cast) + (3 * 6 sec ticks). If you got unlucky and torpor landed right after a server tick it could take up to ~30 secs (6 sec cast) + (4*6 sec ticks). This is of course not taking into consideration potential fizzles (which being a clicky VP staff can't fizzle)


The correct math is:

VP Staff: 300*4=1200 in 28sec for 0 Mana
Torpor: 300*4=1200 in ~23-30sec for 200+ Mana (depending on fizzles)

Plus:

• Sustaining the same amount of healing over a long duration fight with Torpor would require precision timing on recasts, great luck with fizzles, constant Canni spamming (which means you have to heal yourself too) meaning you can't do anything but Torpor + Canni Spam. Where with the VP Staff just requires mindless spamming and no chance of fizzles or need to heal yourself. At any point the cleric can simply not click the staff to cast another spell and only lose a tick or two at most of staff heals.
  
• You can infinitely spam VP staff and never run out of mana.
  
• Not having to sit to med nearly as much means fewer chances for sit aggro.
  
• A shaman can only cast Torpor X number of times (varies depending on mana pool and fizzles) before going OOM and having to Canni, at which time Torpor spam becomes even less efficient.
  
• You can cast Celestial Elixir (300 mana) and then spam click VP staff and have essentially double the healing of Torpor for only 50% more mana.
  
• Torpor has snare + melee slow, VP staff does not.
  
• Being a cleric there are many other tools at your disposal that a shaman doesn't get. Most notably CH, DA/DB, Rez, etc. Really the only utility a shaman has over a cleric for killing high end mobs is Slow, which can be nullified by high MR mobs or simply bad luck with RNG on Slow resists.

I also have the option of dropping a Celestial Elixir for 300 mana and then VP staff spamming to get ~100% more healing than torpor for 50% more mana.

Since VP staff is mana-free and not subject to fizzles. I can duo/trio/small group the same mobs that would require slow + torpor on my shaman to duo/trio/small group without slowing (and having to worry about getting screwed over by RNG with slow resists).

I hadn’t seen this math before, but this just show some how broken that staff is. I suspect the only reason it’s not higher on most people’s list is because it’s a rare no drop item in VP - it’s just not very common, and it’s not tradeable.

I just recently got the enchanter charm staff, and that’s another pretty broken item - though less broken than either the necro or cleric staff. Mana-free no-spellgem charm up to level 49 mobs is pretty sick.

[Slave35]

Originally Posted by Nikkanu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You clearly and demonstrably don't know what you're talking about.

Greater Healing for Cleric is 300.

Cast time on VP Staff is 7 seconds. Recast time is 0 (being a clicky).

Cast time on Torpor is 6 seconds. Recast time is 6 seconds.

Torpor costs 200 mana, VP staff is 0 mana.

If you got super lucky and Torpor landed less than 1 second before a server tick it would take ~23 seconds to heal for 1200 (6 sec cast) + (3 * 6 sec ticks). If you got unlucky and torpor landed right after a server tick it could take up to ~30 secs (6 sec cast) + (4*6 sec ticks). This is of course not taking into consideration potential fizzles (which being a clicky VP staff can't fizzle)


The correct math is:

VP Staff: 300*4=1200 in 28sec for 0 Mana
Torpor: 300*4=1200 in ~23-30sec for 200+ Mana (depending on fizzles)

Plus:

• Sustaining the same amount of healing over a long duration fight with Torpor would require precision timing on recasts, great luck with fizzles, constant Canni spamming (which means you have to heal yourself too) meaning you can't do anything but Torpor + Canni Spam. Where with the VP Staff just requires mindless spamming and no chance of fizzles or need to heal yourself. At any point the cleric can simply not click the staff to cast another spell and only lose a tick or two at most of staff heals.
  
• You can infinitely spam VP staff and never run out of mana.
  
• Not having to sit to med nearly as much means fewer chances for sit aggro.
  
• A shaman can only cast Torpor X number of times (varies depending on mana pool and fizzles) before going OOM and having to Canni, at which time Torpor spam becomes even less efficient.
  
• You can cast Celestial Elixir (300 mana) and then spam click VP staff and have essentially double the healing of Torpor for only 50% more mana.
  
• Torpor has snare + melee slow, VP staff does not.
  
• Being a cleric there are many other tools at your disposal that a shaman doesn't get. Most notably CH, DA/DB, Rez, etc. Really the only utility a shaman has over a cleric for killing high end mobs is Slow, which can be nullified by high MR mobs or simply bad luck with RNG on Slow resists.

I also have the option of dropping a Celestial Elixir for 300 mana and then VP staff spamming to get ~100% more healing than torpor for 50% more mana.

Since VP staff is mana-free and not subject to fizzles. I can duo/trio/small group the same mobs that would require slow + torpor on my shaman to duo/trio/small group without slowing (and having to worry about getting screwed over by RNG with slow resists).

ITT: people who don't know a buttfucking thing about Torpor. It can easily hit 5x for 1500 health

[Nikkanu]

Originally Posted by Slave35 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ITT: people who don't know a buttfucking thing about Torpor. It can easily hit 5x for 1500 health

I do realize you can occasionally get a 5th tick of Torpor, but since there's no way to reliably get the extra tick (just like there's no way to reliably get the extra dot ticks) I didn't see the need to factor it into the math.

I'd be curious to see how many extra torpor ticks someone could get in a 10 minute fight, I haven't tested it myself but odds are it would be pretty rare.

I played my shaman pretty extensively in kunark and didn't notice it that often.

[Nikkanu]

Originally Posted by Femm [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Torp does not compare, it isn't even in the same league. And torp is amazing.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by nyclin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

clerics really should never be doing anything other than healing

[Baler]

Originally Posted by nyclin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

nope, it's definitely 300hp

Well the wiki fooled me again. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]+
It listed 270 as the max heal for Greater Healing.

Originally Posted by Nikkanu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Torpor: 300*4=1200 in ~23-30sec for 200+ Mana (depending on fizzles)

Originally Posted by Nikkanu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You clearly and demonstrably don't know what you're talking about.

The first 300 HP from Torpor can happen as soon as a server Tick. Meaning 18.001(ideally 19s) seconds for 4 ticks. If you want to add the cast time,. 25 seconds. still shorter than that staff.
Also Alteration specialization makes it only cost ~185 mana.

100 seconds = Torpor(4800hp), Staff(4200hp)
And i'll repeat because you didn't seem to understand the first time I said it. You can continue casting spells once torpor lands, you're locked out of casting other spells using the staff.

I think you need to spend more time in game, you're getting soft. And i'm not sorry that the staff you have on your magelo isn't as godlike as you make it out to be.

---
My money is still on leatherfoot raider cap most op item in the game. People can go on and on about puppet strings,. but puppet strings do not cheat death.
And if you're dead it doesn't matter what clickies or gear you have.

[turbosilk]

The OT hammer is the most OP game breaking item. It is by far the primary reason that druids and wizards aren't considered viable in dungeon groups because melee can just hammer out when the group is done. Nerf the hammer MQ and druids and wiz have a place in groups like was intended.

This by far should be the next Nerf to bring back the classic feel.

[Tnair]

Originally Posted by turbosilk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nerf the hammer MQ and druids and wiz have a place in groups like was intended.

This by far should be the next Nerf to bring back the classic feel.

All MQ should be nerfed at this point... it only ever made sense to me as a way to explore the game quests before they were exhaustively documented.

Also Hadden's earring should be No Drop.

..I may be biased.

*Edit: as well as slightly off topic

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by Nikkanu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How did this get to page 6 without mentioning Shissar Apothic Staff ?!?

300hp heal every 7 seconds, 0 mana cost, and unlike Torpor it has NO attack speed slow or snare effect. It's like Torpor, only better, and MANA FREE!

As good as Donal's BP + Manastone combo was in classic, I think the VP heal staff is stronger in Velious (especially combined with the increase in tank HP and AC from Velious gear).

Can't really compare fungi's passive hp/tick to a 250+ hp/tick clicky. =)

Let me ask you this. What mobs open up as a result of this staff? Solo, duo, trio, whatever.

Next consider puppet strings. Think of how fundamentally different they can make a Cleric.