Miscellaneous: P99 should have a +Mana cap and revised Base Mana Formula

[Erati]

Even if everyone agrees Mana was capped originally, classic gear is so basic that I truly don't understand this crusade to nerf the top 5% players here by suggesting the Devs to gut and re-do how mana is calculated/stored through items.

So let me break this down for you on why this seems a bit overreaching in terms of a 'wishlist' change here: My druid who probably has the highest mana pool of all hierophants is sitting around 4,380 mana, and using Dald's estimate of 3,683 would represent a 16% nerf to my main's mana pool. If we whack off 350 mana from my druids total which would be closer to the avg lvl 60 raider and then calculate again, Dald's figure ( again the most conservative ) would represent a 9% nerf. Basically this nerf would only be felt by anyone who has above 4k mana unbuffed and even then you have to ascend to the top 5% of mana pools for it to actually be somewhat significant and make much of a difference as we are basically talking about one less 300 mana-ish spell for the average raiding player.

For a ton of backend work on how the Titanium client interacts with the server in terms of every single player's mana pool calculation from meditating to spell casting, you are looking at basically a less than 10% nerf to the general raiding public. This is a neat idea if the Green server ever becomes a thing as then you would see this actually affect twinking significantly however on the 10 year old blue server, this effort seems a bit misplaced considering how many longstanding bugs that are seemingly easier to correct are still on the table. ( LoH bug going on 9+ years, White Dragon helm bug 2+ year, Paladin Defense/Disc etc etc etc )

In conclusion, Mana was always mysterious and hard to solve how it was calculated, my classic fix here would be to remove the client mana # display then people can just blissfully speculate and wonder how much they truely have while others won't be so focused on trying to remove 1 additional 300 mana spell cast from the general raiding public.

[Rygar]

Some changes are just going to affect some people more than others, no way around that. It affects every single caster really, at all levels, not just the elite raiders. Not a reason to keep out a change.

I realize there is a desire to "be the best geared druid with highest mana pool", just wasnt classic in terms of mana pool. I'm sorry that this would anger you, i get no joy from that.

I don't know how hard this would be to implement, perhaps it is an easy fix, perhaps difficult. Maybe nilbog wants to leave as is to account for time locked server? I don't know.

This isn't a crusade against raiders, just posting some facts that were found which fit the stated mission of this project.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Some changes are just going to affect some people more than others, no way around that. It affects every single caster really, at all levels, not just the elite raiders. Not a reason to keep out a change.

I realize there is a desire to "be the best geared druid with highest mana pool", just wasnt classic in terms of mana pool. I'm sorry that this would anger you, i get no joy from that.

I don't know how hard this would be to implement, perhaps it is an easy fix, perhaps difficult. Maybe nilbog wants to leave as is to account for time locked server? I don't know.

This isn't a crusade against raiders, just posting some facts that were found which fit the stated mission of this project.

You posted facts many times over and now reposted the same facts. Please wait to allow for Devs to comment or only post to add some new evidence.

In my experience, silence from Devs on large client issues usually means its a rather complex change to implement where some bug reports get “fixed pending update” the same day as posted. This threads information isnt suddenly a revelation by re organizing the already posted material, as Ive yet to know a bug report “thrown out” bc the thread became unorganized. Thats why I said you’re on a crusade, glaring facts in front of you that you are chosing to ignore just so you can toot your horn about implementing this change. Honestly the best fix for a classic mana bar experience is what I suggested which is a practical one, remove the mana amount display on UIs and then no one will know how much mana they get from anything. This way players items provide their listed stats and the community will be in constant debate about what gear choices are better bc the mana calculation would be a secret bc no total shown.

[Rygar]

Wow Erati, you are raging sooo hard it is cringe worthy. This is NOT rants and flames my man, dial it down.

I was never 'reposting the facts over and over again'. I've bumped the thread as it went through inception to add new findings and occasional bump for awareness, but I've been by no means tooting my own horn and launching a crusade, I have plenty of other bug reports that are neutral to raiders or beneficial. It's just something I like to do.

Raev made a good point that a lot of this evidence is spread out and it isn't as concise so suggested a summary, I thought that was warranted and did so. Even if not for devs but for new players to digest the information and form their opinion on the matter.

Who is to really say why dev's choose to fix what they fix, I'm assuming some low hanging fruit which is easy to update that won't have the potential to break the world gives a sense of accomplishment and is a low-risk endeavor. Playing with mana calculation probably touches a whole bunch of routines and seems higher-risk, and who knows what client issues are in place.

To recap: I summarized thread in a neat little bow. You got angry by that. Reflect on that a bit.

[Baler]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow Erati, you are raging sooo hard it is cringe worthy. This is NOT rants and flames my man, dial it down.

You're messing with people who spend too much time playing a game from 1999. I'm just saying you may be screwing with mentally unstable people by pursuing some of these classic fixes.
Seeing as how dudes are doxing people, ddosing and other nonsense. Tow the line. Simply not a threat but a friendly recommendation. Or play it where it lies. *shrugs* Werid people on the internet dude.

You can white knight it but is it worth the risk? Sometimes I even have to put forum quest down and lay low.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I NEED MANA!

Project 1999 just doesn't get much development time any more. One of the most remarkable things about TAKP is watching the developers fixing things every week while still working on a new expansion. So yeah, fixing knight defense, releasing Chardok, the 2H upgrades, etc all seem like higher priorities for me. And I realize that no one likes to get nerfed after putting a lot of time and effort into something.

But I think if you step back and look at the big picture objectively, implementing classic caps on AC, mana, and resists has a lot of positive side effects: better balance between players and NPCs, better balance between raiders and non-raiders, a generally more classic server, and hopefully a more relaxed attitude. I'm totally for competitors and against handout queens, but tracking and late night batphoning to acquire pixels on an emulated server is a pretty pointless mode of competition. MMORPGs in general are probably not great for spiritual development but P99 has taken it to a new level.

I think if you channel that competitive energy into something more real, like say MMA or politics, you might find it more rewarding fairly quickly.

[Nikkanu]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Basically this nerf would only be felt by anyone who has above 4k mana unbuffed and even then you have to ascend to the top 5% of mana pools for it to actually be somewhat significant and make much of a difference as we are basically talking about one less 300 mana-ish spell for the average raiding player.

Wow, so my cleric is in the top 5% of mana pools on the server? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[smitho1984]

Originally Posted by Nikkanu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow, so my cleric is in the top 5% of mana pools on the server? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Like you didn't know. I'm stuck at 4410m and probably won't move any higher.

[Nikkanu]

Originally Posted by smitho1984 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Like you didn't know. I'm stuck at 4410m and probably won't move any higher.

Yeah, I'm not going any higher either. My Cleric is an alt now. Not really any point going past 4k mana as a cleric since by the time you go OOM most all the other clerics are already have been OOM for awhile and you're probably going to wipe anyways.

[Jimjam]

It was a great consolidated post, making the subject much easier to understand.

One of the things I love about Everquest classic is the diminishing returns and caps on most stats and gear. Not that my opinion counts for anything here; this is a classic emulation, not 'what people like most' server.