A Majority Vote

[booter]

In all seriousness though, why don't the majority of players (read: not A/A) decide what they think is best for the server?

If they do, and A/A don't feel like playing along, what happens?

[Mistle]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't want a rotation, they don't work.

What would have been nice is if an 80+ VP keyed guild stepped out of the old rotation though and stopped pretending they were a casual guild, while simultaneously shitting on casual guilds who wanted to join in.

I sure the hell don't remember 80 people on any VP run I was in. I don't remember it ever reaching even half of that.

But that aside. You do remember why the Gorenaire entry restriction was asked for, right Swish? How come when you rant about the destruction of rotations, you always neglect to mention that guilds were double dipping it, taking their own spot and then "helping" another guild that couldn't do it alone in return for part of the loot?

You always seem to leave that part out.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Mistle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I sure the hell don't remember 80 people on any VP run I was in. I don't remember it ever reaching even half of that.

But that aside. You do remember why the Gorenaire entry restriction was asked for, right Swish? How come when you rant about the destruction of rotations, you always neglect to mention that guilds were double dipping it, taking their own spot and then "helping" another guild that couldn't do it alone in return for part of the loot?

You always seem to leave that part out.

I didn't say 80 people went on VP raids, I was making the point that BDA and Taken had plenty of keyed characters that could have done VP raids and could have gone to Class C.

The rotation should have had some kind of progression system involved in it. After X amount of Trakanon key pieces a guild should have been required to step out of R and into C.

Why do that though? Better to berate a leveling guild wanting to join the rotation and discourage them from doing so because you want to go for the pixel grab and feed your own zerg guild, right?

And that's where the Gorenaire part came in. Chest and pals knew that you had to (at the time) have a zerg to really get it done...why would a casual rotation require 24/7 around the clock coverage? When that started to be a requirement you can see why casual guilds across separate time zones would help each other out.

What does a casual guild mean to you? To me it means a guild of raiders who aren't in top gear, don't have 80+ VP keyed characters, and don't have 24/7 raid coverage.

The size of BDA/Taken in terms of numbers was ridiculous so they played the rotation their way, and later on got mad that Europa/Omni/AG banded together to keep the pace. That's all they could do.

Also never forget one of the excuses for being cunts about it...

"We're getting ready for Velious raiding guys" - Chest


aaaaand where are they now? Off the server because they can't compete at the level their gear suggested they could [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yikes

[Mistle]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

aaaaand where are they now? Off the server because they can't compete at the level their gear suggested they could [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What a strange belief. BDA killed everything they got an attempt on, with the exception of Sontalak. Even AoW would have died (with Taken right) day one had the server held up. Gear was never a problem nor was skill. But you're right. They couldn't compete with the level of competition the top guilds asked for. I was right there watching the few FTEers we had burn the fuck out sitting for hours and hours day in and day out trying to get pixels for the guild. It wasn't fair to ask people to do that when a clear alternative was available.

As usual, you misread what was really happening, just like you do with the death of the rotation. Swish, you really should be a PART of what was going on if you're going to judge it.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Mistle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What a strange belief. BDA killed everything they got an attempt on, with the exception of Sontalak. Even AoW would have died (with Taken right) day one had the server held up. Gear was never a problem nor was skill. But you're right. They couldn't compete with the level of competition the top guilds asked for. I was right there watching the few FTEers we had burn the fuck out sitting for hours and hours day in and day out trying to get pixels for the guild. It wasn't fair to ask people to do that when a clear alternative was available.

As usual, you misread what was really happening, just like you do with the death of the rotation. Swish, you really should be a PART of what was going on if you're going to judge it.

As in part of BDA, as you'd have it. You had to be in BDA to understand? Okay pal.

As I recall you weren't getting the targets, people started leaving (or "burning out"), and without a ring fenced rotation that BDA could exploit for a second time there was no other choice but to quit. You did it to yourselves.

[Mead]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't say 80 people went on VP raids, I was making the point that BDA and Taken had plenty of keyed characters that could have done VP raids and could have gone to Class C.

The rotation should have had some kind of progression system involved in it. After X amount of Trakanon key pieces a guild should have been required to step out of R and into C.

Why do that though? Better to berate a leveling guild wanting to join the rotation and discourage them from doing so because you want to go for the pixel grab and feed your own zerg guild, right?

And that's where the Gorenaire part came in. Chest and pals knew that you had to (at the time) have a zerg to really get it done...why would a casual rotation require 24/7 around the clock coverage? When that started to be a requirement you can see why casual guilds across separate time zones would help each other out.

What does a casual guild mean to you? To me it means a guild of raiders who aren't in top gear, don't have 80+ VP keyed characters, and don't have 24/7 raid coverage.

The size of BDA/Taken in terms of numbers was ridiculous so they played the rotation their way, and later on got mad that Europa/Omni/AG banded together to keep the pace. That's all they could do.

Also never forget one of the excuses for being cunts about it...

"We're getting ready for Velious raiding guys" - Chest


aaaaand where are they now? Off the server because they can't compete at the level their gear suggested they could [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yikes

You're arguing that BDA should have competed in class C and then that they couldn't compete so they left the server in the same post. You should really read what you post before you hit submit reply. If you think BDA could compete in class C then you really have no clue what class C raiding is like. Which is not surprising. You don't have much of a clue about anything raid related except for what you read on forums. Just this asperger fueled hated for bda because they ruined your pixel experience. Skip the part where you reply about personal attacks. I don't care about your feelings.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Mead [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're arguing that BDA should have competed in class C and then that they couldn't compete so they left the server in the same post. You should really read what you post before you hit submit reply. If you think BDA could compete in class C then you really have no clue what class C raiding is like. Which is not surprising. You don't have much of a clue about anything raid related except for what you read on forums. Just this asperger fueled hated for bda because they ruined your pixel experience. Skip the part where you reply about personal attacks. I don't care about your feelings.

We're talking 2 different eras. I don't think that's hard to comprehend. I'm not writing an essay to fill the gaps for you.

Kunark when there was a rotation and they'd cleared dozens of Trakanons they should have stepped up to Class C.

So it's okay for BDA to say "guys we just can't compete with the top 2 guilds" but simultaneously shit on anyone coming in on the bottom rung of the rotation who doesn't have a big enough zerg to take down Gorenaire? That's what happened, that's the double standards, and that's why it's funny that you quit the server when Velious hit, because you wouldn't compete [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

CSG doing fine, Venerate/FoH doing fine, Anon and pals doing fine.

What's your excuse? "There's no rotation"

[Mistle]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As in part of BDA, as you'd have it. You had to be in BDA to understand? Okay pal.

As I recall you weren't getting the targets, people started leaving (or "burning out"), and without a ring fenced rotation that BDA could exploit for a second time there was no other choice but to quit. You did it to yourselves.

No no, not a part of BDA, though I think that REALLY would have opened your eyes. Just in one of any of them.

Did people leave BDA for guilds that got more targets? Yup. Not very many, but there were Hevies and Kageys out there. There's always some turnover, in every guild. Some people left because BDA was never as hardcore as you seem to think it was. It never had close to the number of FTEers the top two guilds had, nor the number of trackers.

But BDA was fine in terms of its numbers when it decided to move. It wasn't in any trouble and hadn't lost any significant numbers of players. It just didn't have the people it needed to actually get FTE on these upper echelon mobs. Valse could not play 24/7. Look at these threads. Look at what people were doing to win these races, and this doesn't even begin to address the hours it took.

The only "yikes" part here is that there is anyone who actually still does...

[Mistle]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

CSG doing fine, Venerate/FoH doing fine, Anon and pals doing fine.

What's your excuse? "There's no rotation"

That may be today. But when BDA left, the number of mobs actually not being FTEed by the top two guilds was hovering around 2%, outside of VP.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Mistle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That may be today. But when BDA left, the number of mobs actually not being FTEed by the top two guilds was hovering around 2%, outside of VP.

Yet didn't BDA get FTE on a couple of Velious mobs before any other guild did?

I dunno, sounds like you had too few good people wanting to track/FTE and too many warm bodies expecting pixels hand fed to them.

That's probably the consequence of trying to get as many people in the guild as possible. Was recruitment ever closed?