Titanium DL

[fastboy21]

There are victimless crimes, but there is no such thing as victimless copyright violation. If there is no victim it can't be a copyright violation. It pretty simple.

[paulgiamatti]

Yes, I'll concede that point, but it won't stop me from saying pirating Titanium is a victimless crime because calling Daybreak a victim in that scenario is extremely hyperbolic. If it diminishes their copyright power at all then it's not enough for me to say they've been victimized.

[NegaStoat]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes it is, that's the definition of unauthorized redistribution. Granted, you'll never actually be prosecuted for uploading & seeding torrents unless you're running a large-scale operation and costing some hawkish corporation a large amount of money, but even if you have a legally purchased copy of Titanium (or anything, for that matter), and you go and download a torrent of it, that would still constitute copyright infringement because when you torrent something you are by definition also sharing it. If you own a bunch of movies and you decide to go download them off the bay without hiding your IP address, sooner or later your ISP is going to get a C&D letter from a big movie company because while you were downloading those movies you were also redistributing them without authorization.

All of what you described is valid in the case where software is neither discontinued or abandoned. No one on this planet can currently obtain a digital copy or original copy of the Everquest: Titanium edition of the game through Daybreak, the current holder of the copyright and franchise. The people who did purchase that edition of the game shall not have their right to a digital copy, protected by law, denied to them.

You can spin it as something bad, but the courts take an extremely dim view on anything amounting to trust / monopolies of media in any form and the consumer's rights.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by NegaStoat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All of what you described is valid in the case where software is neither discontinued or abandoned.

It's valid today too. Again, copyright law is agnostic about whether intellectual property is still available through retail, meaning if it came to a lawsuit that wouldn't be a discriminating factor. Simplicity would apply: was copyrighted material acquired or redistributed illegally? If yes, a crime was committed. Hosting and distributing copyrighted software without permission is illegal - it's still unlawful to redistribute copies of old copyrighted software and games, with or without compensation, in any Berne Convention signatory country.

Originally Posted by NegaStoat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one on this planet can currently obtain a digital copy or original copy of the Everquest: Titanium edition of the game through Daybreak, the current holder of the copyright and franchise. The people who did purchase that edition of the game shall not have their right to a digital copy, protected by law, denied to them.

Which is why it isn't illegal for people who legally purchased it to download it off the internet. It's still illegal to torrent it off the internet, because torrenting means redistributing.

Originally Posted by NegaStoat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can spin it as something bad, but the courts take an extremely dim view on anything amounting to trust / monopolies of media in any form and the consumer's rights.

I'm not spinning it as anything, I'm simply stating the facts about copyright law. I don't agree with these laws - I want them to change, and I'm a proponent for the legality of torrenting digital media, especially in the case that it's no longer available on the market. Current copyright law doesn't make sense because in many cases in order to legally reacquire media that you've purchased, someone has to illegally make it available to you. This could be easily fixed in the case of discontinued/abandoned software by updating the DMCA.

[nectarprime]

Are you not aware that you can download files from a torrent without uploading?

[paulgiamatti]

Yes, but leechers are still added to the swarm and in effect help facilitate downloading the torrent by pointing to other seeders. So people who upload nothing and people who upload 20 times what they've downloaded are equally guilty to whatever company decides to record IP addresses in that torrent's swarm.

[Rogean]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why not make some corrections? I know a lot of people here tend to double-down and get aggressive when they're misinformed, but I don't really care about my pride in elf sim forumquest.

What you're suggesting is a pretty clear cut case of bait trolling. People who know they are wrong but spread false information around to get more people vocal about it and pressure us to reveal more than we normally would to 'set the record' straight. This kind of trolling is deliberate, it doesn't work here anymore, and frankly it's quite annoying.

So with that said I will not comment on your gross inaccurate assumptions regarding our legal status with Daybreak. I will clarify my original statement, where I commented on your misunderstanding of how contractual law works, by saying this: Contracts and legal agreements have breach clauses. This means that one side, regardless of any change in management personnel, cannot arbitrarily decide that they don't want to honor it anymore.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What you're suggesting is a pretty clear cut case of bait trolling. People who know they are wrong but spread false information around to get more people vocal about it and pressure us to reveal more than we normally would to 'set the record' straight. This kind of trolling is deliberate, it doesn't work here anymore, and frankly it's quite annoying.

When I make statements about things I am doing so to the best of my knowledge, knowing that while it might not be absolute truth (this is the case for every statement anyone makes about anything, ever), it also isn't knowingly wrong. I'm not trolling or attempting to extort information from you, but I don't really blame you for suspecting that because I have a tendency to be kind of a dick, though I generally have good reasons for being a dick. So instead of attacking me and attempting to shut down the conversation, which is what is happening in this thread, I'd have preferred you give me the benefit of the doubt and correct me in a way that doesn't reveal anything you don't want revealed. Instead you chose the grumpy, cantankerous server owner route - that's fine, I probably had it coming.

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So with that said I will not comment on your gross inaccurate assumptions regarding our legal status with Daybreak.

And in turn I will not comment on your gross conversation-stifling assumptions regarding my intentions when I choose to discuss a completely valid topic like the legality of elf sim.

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I will clarify my original statement, where I commented on your misunderstanding of how contractual law works, by saying this: Contracts and legal agreements have breach clauses. This means that one side, regardless of any change in management personnel, cannot arbitrarily decide that they don't want to honor it anymore.

See? That wasn't so hard, was it?

[nectarprime]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So people who upload nothing and people who upload 20 times what they've downloaded are equally guilty to whatever company decides to record IP addresses in that torrent's swarm.

Please point me towards a case where someone was found guilty of distributing copywritten material without actually distributing copywritten material.

[paulgiamatti]

*copyrighted

I'm not saying if you leech a torrent you'll be found guilty in a court of law, just that a cease and desist letter will still be sent. That letter won't be sent to you; it will go to your ISP, who has no idea if you were only downloading copyrighted material without authorization, or redistributing copyrighted material without authorization, both of which are illegal and the logical thing to assume. Since your ISP doesn't know if what you were doing was actually illegal per se, they send you an automatic response saying, "Hey, this IP company representing this huge corporation is on our ass because you're torrenting a bunch of shit - cut it out or we'll suspend your service." It is then up to you if you want contest the claims being made by the IP company, in the case that you had authorization to download said material and you weren't redistributing it. Even if you're innocent and you had authorization, you're still just going to find a way to hide your IP address instead of getting into a lawsuit with a company whose toilet paper is worth more than your life.