Which class when played with skill affects your group the most?

[skarlorn]

Alt answer: rogue. If rogue is pick pocketing correctly they should be sneak pulling, delivering dps, and making sure the party gets 50% less loot.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by skarlorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Alt answer: rogue. If rogue is pick pocketing correctly they should be sneak pulling, delivering dps, and making sure the party gets 50% less loot.

I don't think I've ever seen a rogue pull. Not saying they aren't suited to it or it doesn't happen, just saying I've never seen it.

[Izmael]

One other thing that puts Enc in first place for me is the fact that it is usually a lot clearer to the other group members what the Enc is doing, than what a Bard is doing, especially in iffy situations.

The bard would have to constantly explain his actions to the group while it's enough to just look at the Enc and you understand what's going on just by his model animations most of the time.

[Morbo the Annihilator]

who are these dorks that play in full groups?

this is EQ, a place to do big things will small numbers.
and with small numbers, bards are garbage.

1. shaman/chanter
paired with a
2. necro/cleric

[Malk]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think I've ever seen a rogue pull. Not saying they aren't suited to it or it doesn't happen, just saying I've never seen it.

No wonder you've never seen it if you don't cast see invis, duh! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Apart from this joke, a lot of people choose bard and that may be because of a bias : so many bards are so awful in groups that the few ones that are good seem to be godlike. A good bard is... a good bard and that's it.

Pulling and CCing are often considered as the most skill-hungry tasks, so monks and chanters are good candidates. However CCing is subsequent to pulling and in the end if you look at it as a life-or-death game, the one move that matters the most is the monk FDing at the right time.

[Brut]

Monk isn't relevant at all unless it's a tough camp that actually needs to be single pulls, or a named camp where you don't care to kill trash and just wan't that king solo.

On an exp grp any class can really pull. Just bring mobs in, cc the adds, kill em, keep pulling more. Long as the puller is decent at keeping pace and pulling without leaving stupid amounts of downtime, FD isn't even required.

[Loke]

The max a Bard can do is Chorus of Replenishment (equal to Enchanter mana regen), 45% haste, 31% Slow, Charm (that breaks every 18 seconds, so it does less DPS), and Mez 1 target. If they don't need to Mez then they can add in an additional 10% of haste, which is still inferior in total to what an Enchanter gives, or they can instead add a little bit of extra mana regen.

Enchanter is doing 64% Haste, 50% Slow (and can go higher if needed), Charm that breaks less often and can work on higher level targets if needed, and can Mez/Root multiple targets while doing this.

First, I think you're thinking of Cantana, not Chorus. Secondly, the bard epic is 55% haste, 30 str, and 30 ATK. The proc last for 2:30, so if you're actually attacking you shouldn't need to haste since most bards have high DEX. One of the strengths of a bard is that they can so quickly change roles to fit what the group needs. A good bard can mez, twist a few buffs, and attack all at the same time. People might say bard melee is weak, which it is, but an epic bard can easily put out 30-40 dps on non-raid mobs, which adds up.

Another benefit of a bard over an enchanter is their ability to take hits. I played a bard before I started my ench, and not being able to take a few hits was one of the hardest things to adjust to. A dead enchanter is a lot less useful than even the worst bard, and it is definitely harder to kill a bard than an enchanter.

But the big thing is that the question was "which class when played with skill affects your group the most?"... I don't think casting haste every 42 mins (VoG) or c2 every 35 minutes really takes skill. Which class is the most powerful in the group is not the same thing as which, when played well, affects the group the most. I would argue the barrier to entry on an enchanter is lower, because playing an enchanter is like playing a bard on easy mode. They're definitely a more powerful class, but in a group dynamic they're much easier to play well.

I have a L60 bard and L60 ench, both with epics, and the bard definitely takes more skill to play well in a group. The enchanter may be the more powerful class, but it also isn't that hard to play an enchanter well in a group. Enchanter skill comes into play more when they're solo, or in a small group setting. I can name dozens of enchanters who as just as good as me at the class in a group setting, but can't think of any bards off the top of my head. I'm sure they're out there, but I simply haven't had the opportunity to group with them because they're much more rare than good enchanters.

[Lowako]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

words words words

If you take a 100% optimally played enchanter, and a 100% optimally played bard, the enchanter will always have a larger impact on the group. Sure, the skill/effort cap on the bard is probably much higher, but even when you reach your limit you are still not as good as an enchanter. No amount of skill will change the fact that an equally or slightly less competent enchanter will provide more to the group. Also, 40 dps on a bard seems a bit high, but even then, thats like 1/3 of an enchanter pet. Non-epic / not great weapons bards seem to compete with shaman pets for DPS from the few times I've been able to parse them.

Regardless, arguing hypotheticals usually leads nowhere useful.

[Kotopes]

I almost never seen well-played necros, and was surprised this is just as rare on P99 compared with Live. Granted I didn't group with many here yet so bear with me.

[Loke]

40 is pretty accurate. My bard averaged mid 30s on raid mobs (epic, katana of flowing water, 34% worn haste), and exp mobs have less AC. Also, if we're talking about high dps estimates, 120 dps from a charm pet is definitely on the high side.

Overall I agree with you though. Enchanter is the more powerful class, bard skill is just much more noticeable in a group because good bards are few and far between.