Patch Notes: Monday, September 5th, 2016

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not going to speak too much to the technological reasons being given for AE nerf, as it was a general feeling amongst the staff, not just one or two people. However, there were additional reasons that changes needed to be made. Chardok AE trivializes XP Gain with loads of free time inbetween, which goes against the spirit of the entire game, not just Classic EQ. It's also one of the only spots you can do this, which is significantly unfair as a whole. Bard AE kiting also continues to cause issues with zone disruptions.

So while you may disagree with one or two of the reasons, there's certainly enough people here agreeing that the change overall needed to be made.

/hug /hug /hug /hug /hug /hug /hug /hug /hug /hug

[khanable]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

/hug /hug /hug /hug /hug /hug /hug /hug /hug /hug

[Lhancelot]

Two of the most annoying occurences in the game regarding leveling are being nerfed, this should be celebrated.

That being solo bards swarm-kiting entire zones and Chardok Proxy leveling sales being ran by rich and lazy players who didn't want to put forth any effort into leveling a new toon.

No idea how this change isn't viewed as a positive one. I personally have to say THANKS devs. Maybe a bit late, but better now than never.

[ergo]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not going to speak too much to the technological reasons being given for AE nerf, as it was a general feeling amongst the staff, not just one or two people. However, there were additional reasons that changes needed to be made. Chardok AE trivializes XP Gain with loads of free time inbetween, which goes against the spirit of the entire game, not just Classic EQ. It's also one of the only spots you can do this, which is significantly unfair as a whole. Bard AE kiting also continues to cause issues with zone disruptions.

So while you may disagree with one or two of the reasons, there's certainly enough people here agreeing that the change overall needed to be made.

Ad populum[logical fallacy] is never a rational justification for a decision. Everyone thought burning witches was a good idea too, save the witch. That doesn't make burning said witch the correct, or logical thing to do.

You have over many patches decided that something being classic has no baring on what you and your staff will do. The argument of xxx not being classic means nothing because you will ignore what is classic when it suits you.[see level requirement on epics as an example, spoiler: Still no minimum level requirement on live servers]

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by ergo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ad populum[logical fallacy] is never a rational justification for a decision. Everyone thought burning witches was a good idea too, save the witch. That doesn't make burning said witch the correct, or logical thing to do.

You have over many patches decided that something being classic has no baring on what you and your staff will do. The argument of xxx not being classic means nothing because you will ignore what is classic when it suits you.[see level requirement on epics as an example, spoiler: Still no minimum level requirement on live servers]

Faulty Comparison [logical fallacy] - Witch hunts and emulated games are not the same thing, nor sufficiently similar to be analogous. In the world of emulated games mass appeal is beneficial, which is why Blue thrives while Red does not.

[LordRayken]

Originally Posted by ergo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ad populum[logical fallacy] is never a rational justification for a decision. Everyone thought burning witches was a good idea too, save the witch. That doesn't make burning said witch the correct, or logical thing to do.

You have over many patches decided that something being classic has no baring on what you and your staff will do. The argument of xxx not being classic means nothing because you will ignore what is classic when it suits you.[see level requirement on epics as an example, spoiler: Still no minimum level requirement on live servers]

Isn't using such extreme and illogical analogies like "burning witches is okay" a logical fallacy as well? That wasn't even a proper ad populum fallacy anyway.

You're stretching to make an argument.

No class in any game should be able to kill an entire zone with an aoe. That's just bad design, classic or not.

[ergo]

Originally Posted by LordRayken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Isn't using such extreme and illogical analogies like "burning witches is okay" a logical fallacy as well? That wasn't even a proper ad populum fallacy anyway.

You're stretching to make an argument.

No class in any game should be able to kill an entire zone with an aoe. That's just bad design, classic or not.

Reverse order: Your opinion on what should or shouldn't be the case is irrelevant to what was the case and how the game was played originally. People have taken it to extremes here[p99] due to knowing everything about the game.

As for the comparison:

I was giving an example to illustrate the point of fallacy. Rogan said:

Originally Posted by Rogan

So while you may disagree with one or two of the reasons, there's certainly enough people here agreeing that the change overall needed to be made.

Literally his own words as justification as to why the change needed to be made. Its a bad argument. My using his same logic and applying it elsewhere to show why it is bad logic and a bad argument is not a stretch.

The other people agreeing with the nerf has no baring on the nerf being right or wrong, or the conclusion reached being reasonable and that is why it is a logical fallacy.

"Because fuck you[bards/wizards/enchanters/ae groups], that's why" is a better reason than a logical fallacy to justify why a change needs to be made or some bullshit excuse about system specs/internet of the time etc.

By the end of 1998, the North American cable industry counted 550,000 cable modem subscribers. That grew to 1.6 million by the end of 1999 and five million a year later. At the end of 2002, there were more than 16 million.

Source: http://www.informit.com/library/cont...band&seqNum=17

It's a bullshit excuse. Swarm kiting was a thing in classic EQ, AE groups were a thing in classic EQ. This is a fact.

Originally Posted by Ravager

Faulty Comparison [logical fallacy]

If you are going to try to call me out, at least get the name right.

Witch hunts and emulated games are not the same thing,

I never made the claim they were, strawman. I was speaking specifically at the mass (a mob burning a witch) and claiming to be justified because the majority agreed. I never claimed witch burning and video games were alike.

I see why you would think, incorrectly, that that was my point, which it was not because arguing against the point I made would be futile.

Blue and red are irrelevant in this discussion. I couldn't care less about red v blue and it has no influence on my argument regarding this nerf.

I care about bad justifications for nerfing 16yr old content to appeal to the 'majority' of people on the forums and zero indication that the forums represent the server as a whole, only the loudest and seemingly the most ignorant.

I care about the hypocrisy of the admins claiming to care about a 'classic experience' when it suits them and ignoring it when it differs from their desires.

I have no objection to them doing as they will on their server, but be honest about it and stop using the 'classic/not classic' bullshit shield, appeals to popularity of idiots on the forums, or made up computer spec issues to justify those actions.

Maybe the community is too stupid to be insulted by Rogan's words, I am not sure. nm it's the internet, what am I thinking?

[khanable]

Originally Posted by ergo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I care about bad justifications for nerfing 16yr old content to appeal to the 'majority' of people on the forums and zero indication that the forums represent the server as a whole, only the loudest and seemingly the most ignorant.

I care about the hypocrisy of the admins claiming to care about a 'classic experience' when it suits them and ignoring it when it differs from their desires.

Found the AE shitlord that dreads having to actually level characters and farm real camps for plat

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by ergo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I care about bad justifications for nerfing 16yr old content to appeal to the 'majority' of people on the forums and zero indication that the forums represent the server as a whole, only the loudest and seemingly the most ignorant.

Why? Seems like nerfing 16 year old content to appeal to the majority of people is justification in itself, good or bad is mere opinion, why is yours better than someone else's? Arrogance? Befits a first year undergrad who regurgitates his logic textbook on internet forums.

I care about the hypocrisy of the admins claiming to care about a 'classic experience' when it suits them and ignoring it when it differs from their desires.

Their stated mission on the About Page http://www.project1999.com/index.php?pageid=about is to recreate the classic feeling, so where's the hypocrisy? Put up a poll if you like, you won't find many who agree with you that bard swarming to the extent it's been done here feels classic. I never new bard swarming and Chardok AE was a thing until I started here and I played live the first 5 years. Are you mad that they're not catering to your own personal desires?

Maybe the community is too stupid to be insulted by Rogan's words, I am not sure. nm it's the internet, what am I thinking?

Why are you insulted? Did they ask you to play here? Did they promise you Bard and Chardok AE? Did they make a crack about your mother when they took it away? If this is what you find insulting, you may not want to go outside or use the internet. It's an offensive world out there.

[Angelice]

Originally Posted by ergo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Reverse order: Your opinion on what should or shouldn't be the case is irrelevant to what was the case and how the game was played originally. People have taken it to extremes here[p99] due to knowing everything about the game.

As for the comparison:

I was giving an example to illustrate the point of fallacy. Rogan said:




Literally his own words as justification as to why the change needed to be made. Its a bad argument. My using his same logic and applying it elsewhere to show why it is bad logic and a bad argument is not a stretch.

The other people agreeing with the nerf has no baring on the nerf being right or wrong, or the conclusion reached being reasonable and that is why it is a logical fallacy.

"Because fuck you[bards/wizards/enchanters/ae groups], that's why" is a better reason than a logical fallacy to justify why a change needs to be made or some bullshit excuse about system specs/internet of the time etc.



Source: http://www.informit.com/library/cont...band&seqNum=17

It's a bullshit excuse. Swarm kiting was a thing in classic EQ, AE groups were a thing in classic EQ. This is a fact.



If you are going to try to call me out, at least get the name right.



I never made the claim they were, strawman. I was speaking specifically at the mass (a mob burning a witch) and claiming to be justified because the majority agreed. I never claimed witch burning and video games were alike.

I see why you would think, incorrectly, that that was my point, which it was not because arguing against the point I made would be futile.

Blue and red are irrelevant in this discussion. I couldn't care less about red v blue and it has no influence on my argument regarding this nerf.

I care about bad justifications for nerfing 16yr old content to appeal to the 'majority' of people on the forums and zero indication that the forums represent the server as a whole, only the loudest and seemingly the most ignorant.

I care about the hypocrisy of the admins claiming to care about a 'classic experience' when it suits them and ignoring it when it differs from their desires.

I have no objection to them doing as they will on their server, but be honest about it and stop using the 'classic/not classic' bullshit shield, appeals to popularity of idiots on the forums, or made up computer spec issues to justify those actions.

Maybe the community is too stupid to be insulted by Rogan's words, I am not sure. nm it's the internet, what am I thinking?

+1