Game Mechanics: Worn haste bug

[Tulvinous]

This seems pretty straight forward... doesn't matter if it says "haste" or "some other special name for haste" because it's still an increased % to haste which just like spell haste affects combat skill refresh timer.

I instantly sold my FBSS back in the day when I didn't need it anymore... guess its back to a haste belt because of developer bugs.

Any confirmation this can be addressed? If anything... just show the % on all items with haste?!?

[Muggens]

Originally Posted by Tulvinous [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This seems pretty straight forward... doesn't matter if it says "haste" or "some other special name for haste" because it's still an increased % to haste which just like spell haste affects combat skill refresh timer.

I instantly sold my FBSS back in the day when I didn't need it anymore... guess its back to a haste belt because of developer bugs.

Any confirmation this can be addressed? If anything... just show the % on all items with haste?!?

Seething Fury:

1 : Increase Attack Speed by 40%
2 : Increase AC by 9
3 : Increase ATK by 40

Alacrity:

1 : Increase Attack Speed by 34% (L24) to 40% (L36)

Alacrity haste up combat timers, Seething Fury does not.

[Tulvinous]

Rogues don't need to prove anything, just because it's their problem doesn't mean it's their fault. I'm not sure what you don't understand.

Please don't confuse people saying the Ragebringer has a spell haste name, it's just a unique worn haste name. It's unique because as you pointed out it has additional attributes that include AC and ATK along with, you guessed it, HASTE.

[Muggens]

Originally Posted by Tulvinous [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rogues don't need to prove anything, just because it's their problem doesn't mean it's their fault. I'm not sure what you don't understand.

Please don't confuse people saying the Ragebringer has a spell haste name, it's just a unique worn haste name. It's unique because as you pointed out it has additional attributes that include AC and ATK along with, you guessed it, HASTE.

Im not saying rogues should prove anything, but it was a response to the way Nilbog worded it in his post I replied to.
Im not confusing anyone but you, I say Ragebringers haste is not worded as just "Haste" on the item, but as such in a spell name ("Seething Fury/Visions of Grandeur") because it has several other effects besides haste. It might be the reason to why Ragebringer is not working as other items with the clear "Haste" in its description. Another point I made is that both Seething Fury and the usual haste spell has the same Haste description (1 : Increase Attack Speed by x%) But as we all know spell haste works with combat timers and Seething Fury does not atm.

[Tulvinous]

It's likely because and as simple as this... the rogue epic doesn't show a % on the item for it's worn haste and why it's broken. An attempt to fix one bug produce another, it happens.

[Muggens]

Originally Posted by Tulvinous [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's likely because and as simple as this... the rogue epic doesn't show a % on the item for it's worn haste and why it's broken. An attempt to fix one bug produce another, it happens.

Yes the bug is because of a change in the programming(which is wording). But Nilbog said to produce evidence that certain/all spell haste or item haste also produce combat timer haste, which everyone knows it does, also theres ton of evidence for it in this thread.
Hence the reason alot of posters have posted all sorts of stuff to show that Seething Fury is the same haste as every other haste, and every other haste provide combat timer haste.


Originally Posted by nilbog:
If haste items should affect cooldown timers, this fix had nothing to do with it. The previous method of how haste was applied to items was wrong, and if that was affecting cooldowns, only some haste items would have 'worked'. If you guys find research about it, update this thread or make a new one with specifics.


This is what I dont understand. Now rogues must prove that Seething Fury provides combat timer haste?

[Zaela]

I don't know what exactly was previously wrong or what the devs changed. But, little history lesson:

In older clients, as we know, most haste items used the worn Effect: Haste method of granting haste. This wasn't the same as a haste buff or a worn haste effect with a specific % -- the amount of haste didn't come from the spell effect, but from a hidden field on the item. (This let them avoid having a different spell called "Haste" for each haste item, since they could just reuse the same spell with different hidden values).

If you think about it, you can see how having Effect: Haste work that way, while also existing side-by-side with rare, fixed-% worn haste effects was kinda odd. The client would have required separate code to handle both cases; having fixed-% worn haste effects at all seems redundant when the hidden field is there to use.

In later clients, the hidden field was done away with, and replaced with the displayed Haste: n% field (explicitly a different field -- a lot of the ancient item fields were relocated and/or changed in later overhauls, plus iirc the hidden haste field did double duty as the min proc/click level on non-haste items originally), and pre-existing haste items were transitioned to this, losing Effect: Haste entirely, if they used it. It's reasonable to think that the code to handle the hidden haste field might have been removed from the client around the same time, which would make the Effect: Haste stuff not work.

And I think you can see how that might leave fixed-% worn haste effects in limbo. Did they rip out the client code to handle that at the same time? But also: did worn effects like that have to deal with buff stacking rules? Did they ever even work correctly? etc. There weren't a lot of worn effect items like that in the classic game, and it was (as far as I'm aware) always vague what, if any, rules there were governing different spell effects when they were "worn".


On the other hand, here's a quick video showing the backstab timer with and without the worn "Seething Fury" effect, in the Trilogy client (and straight from the old spdat.eff marked 2001-08-22 off the CD). About 7 seconds with Seething Fury, and the expected 10 seconds without. Not exactly proof, but it's reasonable to think that if the Trilogy client handled worn fixed-% haste this way (or at least Seething Fury, could be hardcoded I guess), then whatever timeline-specific client version p99 would be on probably would have worked similarly.

[nilbog]

Previously, some items were sharing haste values.

For example.. flowing black silk sash and swirlspine belt. They were sharing a worn effect of the spell: Haste. That was incorrect because they should have different values (fbss 21%, swirlspine 16%). So, I removed the worn effect of Haste from these items and used the actual haste field for the items so the % of haste would be correct. This change only affected items that had worn effect: Haste.

Ragebringer wasn't touched because it was not using the worneffect spell (Haste).

After reading this thread, I queried out which items have haste components built in to their effect, and the results were the following:
Ragebringer
Swiftwind
Tolan's Longsword of the Glade

[Vicatin]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Previously, some items were sharing haste values.

For example.. flowing black silk sash and swirlspine belt. They were sharing a worn effect of the spell: Haste. That was incorrect because they should have different values (fbss 21%, swirlspine 16%). So, I removed the worn effect of Haste from these items and used the actual haste field for the items so the % of haste would be correct. This change only affected items that had worn effect: Haste.

Ragebringer wasn't touched because it was not using the worneffect spell (Haste).

After reading this thread, I queried out which items have haste components built in to their effect, and the results were the following:
Ragebringer
Swiftwind
Tolan's Longsword of the Glade

Nil, thank you for looking into this and the reply. Are we able to assume those items will now affect ability cooldown timers like backstab? Thx kindly!

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Vicatin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are we able to assume those items will now affect ability cooldown timers like backstab? Thx kindly!

That is something that needs to now be looked into. My last post was a supplementary explanation of what was changed with the last patch. Some posters seem confused that Ragebringer was somehow changed, or that correcting the other haste items somehow affected it.