Game Mechanics: Monk kick accuracy

[Timzilla]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not classic parses here, but 100% accuracy has to be wrong. There's more evidence that points towards it being a skill that isn't next to impossible to block... here's what I've found thus far:

http://monklybusiness43508.yuku.com/...ewtopic/id/291



Here's one from about 05. It shows 65% accuracy overall for Flying Kick, which is just about the same for backstab as it currently is on this server.



Here's another one, from 2003. Same overall accuracy. This one was over the course of 7 hours of fighting.

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...81&postcount=9




Even this post also indicates approximately a 60-70% accuracy rating (2008).

https://docs.google.com/View?docid=d...dkss4wf7&pli=1

Here's some information regarding skill caps that may be affecting accuracy (also this might be a good source for all melee damage stuff if anything has been off, as well):

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/po...d=61984#753908
(I don't know if flying kick is maxed at 200 on this server or not, but it is according to this post).

Why link posts that don't anything to do with classic EQ? Might as well be links to potatoe blight discussions.

[MrSquirrelbane]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not classic parses here, but 100% accuracy has to be wrong. There's more evidence that points towards it being a skill that isn't next to impossible to block... here's what I've found thus far:

http://monklybusiness43508.yuku.com/...ewtopic/id/291



Here's one from about 05. It shows 65% accuracy overall for Flying Kick, which is just about the same for backstab as it currently is on this server.



Here's another one, from 2003. Same overall accuracy. This one was over the course of 7 hours of fighting.

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...81&postcount=9




Even this post also indicates approximately a 60-70% accuracy rating (2008).

https://docs.google.com/View?docid=d...dkss4wf7&pli=1

Here's some information regarding skill caps that may be affecting accuracy (also this might be a good source for all melee damage stuff if anything has been off, as well):

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/po...d=61984#753908
(I don't know if flying kick is maxed at 200 on this server or not, but it is according to this post).

That's some good infoz! As I said I don't remember FK having the ability to miss or not. Looks to me like it did, and as such should be changed.

Melee damage, in general, still needs to be looked at though. Damage distribution is not quite classic (Kunark Beta: Mechanics Forum - Melee Damage Thread) The 1st graph in that post is from kunark era. Second graph is a smaller data sample, but still somewhat telling. I think if melee damage were fixed to be more classic then everyone's damage would go down a little. I'm still working on a sample size near what that guy did in kunark. Its not so easy since there seems to be a completely different damage table for both fear and sky (Another post, same thread) on live p99 right now. Doesn't help that work has been crazy busy! I need more data and on similar mobs so the testing is done in a vacuum. I pretty much just need more hate runs. Seems to be the best place to do these sorta parses.

Timzilla: Don't go hating on Aadill's research for not being perfectly classic. The vast majority of EQ's combat system stayed the same for a very long time. I'd wager that, in regards to FK miss rates, his links were just as valid in 1999-2001 as they were in 2003-2005.

[Timzilla]

The game changed quite a bit when level cap was 70 and AAs figured into combat. A lot of monks had quit by then, the class had been gutted so much by SOE caving into these class envy mobs.

[Aadill]

Let me ask this simple question, then:

Barring ripostes, dodges, blocks, or parries, do you ever miss a flying kick at level 50?

According to the parsers, no. If it is a bug in the parser, then that is something that we can't do anything about. The problem is, no one is straight up saying, "this isn't the case!" so it leads one to believe that the parsers are working correctly and that flying kick is a 100% accurate melee attack. I cannot imagine any skill being 100%, as that goes against VI's original mantra of "everything has a level of uncertainty." With that said, I found various eras of Everquest all pointing to the same thing - the accuracy of flying kick was around 60-70%, much like backstab.

There's reference in some of my posts to the minimum damage being changed to 1 from it's current state of 40, as has been mentioned in this thread. That was a change that happened around Kunark when the later damage tables for monks came out that brought them above everyone else to make up the rest of their DPS that would otherwise be lacking (flying kick does roughly half as much as an average backstab) later on in the game. Yes, various expansions did change combat. There are items now that add directly to damage and even accuracy of certain skills, creating a whole new level of problems with trying to parse it but the data have that I found has numbers have maintained about the same value of accuracy of the ability.

Yes, DPS might be reduced some, but monks get different damage tables at level 51 and again every level after that. This server will not get to a point where monks won't still be near the top of DPS lists, but it's so far removed from other classes at times that it doesn't make sense.

[maegi]

Parses don't lie and Rais verified it's 100% and he's 50. No skill in this game should be 100% accuracy. That's not a nerf if it's changed to be like every other skill in this game, classic or not, no skill in classic or after classic is 100% and never should be. Nerfing is taking away something that wasn't broken. This my friends is totally broken.

[Timzilla]

Originally Posted by maegi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Parses don't lie and Rais verified it's 100% and he's 50. No skill in this game should be 100% accuracy. That's not a nerf if it's changed to be like every other skill in this game, classic or not, no skill in classic or after classic is 100% and never should be. Nerfing is taking away something that wasn't broken. This my friends is totally broken.

Ya'll seem to be ignoring a key element. That is that the 100 percent accurate special attacks hits for minimum damage quite often. That's 1 pt at lower levels and apparently 40 pts at high level. It's always been enough for me that me and my group killed the mob, so I don't have any of my own parses. I least of all never cared what anyone else was dpsing at. So I don't know how often I hit for 1 pt; I'd guess about 40 percent. I have no idea how often a backstab or other class special attack hits for 1 pt? Never maybe?

[Aadill]

I'm not a level 50 monk, nor do I have access to one.

Azeth is also not a level 50 monk, nor does he have access to one (I think).

Beyond that, technically it has not been verified by a single level 50 monk. No one in here has said, "yeah it's wrong." Azeth and I are basing our info off of parsers. After looking back through EQ logs, it does indeed show that, for example, the only flying kick "MISS" as picked up by "XXX tries to kick YYY" was where the mob riposted, dodged, parried, blocked, or had a rune. This means that the parser does indeed work correctly and the info being reported is therefore valid. This also means that all other parses in my posts, using GAMParse, would also be valid. With that said, it would seem reasonable that the accuracy of flying kick should be around 60-70%, not 100% as it is now, all according to parsers and not first hand experience.

Whether or not that is enough information has nothing to do with my level, that's not how research works [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[maegi]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not a level 50 monk, nor do I have access to one.

Azeth is also not a level 50 monk, nor does he have access to one (I think).

Beyond that, technically it has not been verified by a single level 50 monk. No one in here has said, "yeah it's wrong." Azeth and I are basing our info off of parsers. After looking back through EQ logs, it does indeed show that, for example, the only flying kick "MISS" as picked up by "XXX tries to kick YYY" was where the mob riposted, dodged, parried, blocked, or had a rune. This means that the parser does indeed work correctly and the info being reported is therefore valid. This also means that all other parses in my posts, using GAMParse, would also be valid. With that said, it would seem reasonable that the accuracy of flying kick should be around 60-70%, not 100% as it is now, all according to parsers and not first hand experience.

Whether or not that is enough information has nothing to do with my level, that's not how research works [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yep got names confused as I have read this whole fucking thread, my bad. But a level 50 monk DID verify this in THIS thread for fucks sake....

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have a 50 monk, spent 20 mins in solb after I saw this bug, and I assure you I missed my kicks some. Not a lot, but some.Thats why I'm guessing the parser isn't reading misses correctly.

I even turned on full combat spam, and kicks weren't dodged,blocked or ripped. Just flat out missed. So who knows.

which he later recanted to agree with you guys parsing the logs as NOT missing unless blocked riposted or parried..

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I take back everything I said. I noticed I was missing a chat filter to double check, and kicks won't miss, only on blocks,parries and rips. So I'm landing kicks unless NPC's roll those 3 misses.

So wtg outing monks! I hate you!

[Aadill]

My mistake! I don't remember well!

So it was verified. Oops xD

[Aadill]

Yes, min damage should be 1. I remember seeing reference to that in searching for parse data. If I remember correctly, min damage was changed to 40 in Kunark.