Conservatism vs Progressivism

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

op is both a moron and an omega cuck who gets off on forum beatdowns. The best response is to just ignore him.

what was it peopel say about liberals who just respond to facts with attacks?

hmm... this guy is a confirmed corporate bitch. So I guess it goes both ways.

[Lune]

As someone who grew up in a wealthy, Republican (fiscal conservative) household and community, and became more left-leaning after university, I've become increasingly disappointed with the character of liberalism and progressives.

While, economically, I'll always seek a healthy balance between laissez-faire and interventionism, things like:

-Covering up the mass-sexual-assault incidents
-Flooding Europe and the US with third world immigrants
-Multiculturalism
-Completely misunderstanding the extent to which politics and religion are intertwined for most Muslims
-Faulting Charlie Hebdo for drawing Muhammad instead of terrorists for being animals
-Radical feminism, safe space, white cis-male privilege, etc etc
-Irrational gun hate

... have so thoroughly ruined progressivism for me that I'm not even sure I identify that way anymore. A lot of these things aren't just championed by 'radicals' or 'extremists' either. I just got hired to tutor college students in Anatomy, Chemistry, Physics, etc, and I have to do a fucking training seminar on safe spaces as part of my employment. I think people like Bill Maher capture progressivism as it should be, reasonably, but sadly the whole thing seems to be evolving away from that, going down the toilet just like conservatism has since Reagan.

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As someone who grew up in a wealthy, Republican (fiscal conservative) household and community, and became more left-leaning after university, I've become increasingly disappointed with the character of liberalism and progressives.

While, economically, I'll always seek a healthy balance between laissez-faire and interventionism, things like:

-Covering up the mass-sexual-assault incidents
-Flooding Europe and the US with third world immigrants
-Multiculturalism
-Completely misunderstanding the extent to which politics and religion are intertwined for most Muslims
-Faulting Charlie Hebdo for drawing Muhammad instead of terrorists for being animals
-Radical feminism, safe space, white cis-male privilege, etc etc
-Irrational gun hate

... have so thoroughly ruined progressivism for me that I'm not even sure I identify that way anymore. A lot of these things aren't just championed by 'radicals' or 'extremists' either. I just got hired to tutor college students in Anatomy, Chemistry, Physics, etc, and I have to do a fucking training seminar on safe spaces as part of my employment. I think people like Bill Maher capture progressivism as it should be, reasonably, but sadly the whole thing seems to be evolving away from that, going down the toilet just like conservatism has since Reagan.

The only thing that resonated "as me" with this list, was Irrational gun hate.. Me? personally I hate guns and I think they are dangerous and stupid and for the simple minded.. but I DO NOT THINK it is an issue that should be politicized right now. thats actually part of the reason I love Bernie so much, he doest either.. its too divisive.

I suppose yes i don't care about muslims, but I don't see you posting about accidental gun deaths, which equate to MORE death in america than muslim terrorism. Well aside for 9/11 which I will give you... Im just not going to let that ONE instance, guide my entire belief system like many others.

mass sex assault? - you def going to go out on a limb here.

multiculturalism? - I suppose yu mean that i am unwilling to admit that skin color has NO natural effect on your ability to do ANYTHING. or maybe that its I respect other cultures because they are just as good and just as bad as americans, who are pretty fucking scummy if you actually look at them objectively.

radical feminist? I am simply a feminist, and my feminism ends when someone disagrees that I think Miley Cyrus is the most prolific feminist of our generation.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just got hired to tutor college students in Anatomy, Chemistry, Physics, etc, and I have to do a fucking training seminar on safe spaces as part of my employment.

This country deserves TRUMP

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As someone who grew up in a wealthy, Republican (fiscal conservative) household and community, and became more left-leaning after university, I've become increasingly disappointed with the character of liberalism and progressives.

While, economically, I'll always seek a healthy balance between laissez-faire and interventionism, things like:

-Covering up the mass-sexual-assault incidents
-Flooding Europe and the US with third world immigrants
-Multiculturalism
-Completely misunderstanding the extent to which politics and religion are intertwined for most Muslims
-Faulting Charlie Hebdo for drawing Muhammad instead of terrorists for being animals
-Radical feminism, safe space, white cis-male privilege, etc etc
-Irrational gun hate

... have so thoroughly ruined progressivism for me that I'm not even sure I identify that way anymore. A lot of these things aren't just championed by 'radicals' or 'extremists' either. I just got hired to tutor college students in Anatomy, Chemistry, Physics, etc, and I have to do a fucking training seminar on safe spaces as part of my employment. I think people like Bill Maher capture progressivism as it should be, reasonably, but sadly the whole thing seems to be evolving away from that, going down the toilet just like conservatism has since Reagan.

Well I started out that way as well, but I eventually faced a paradigm shift in my life. Although too young to vote, I was around to see Carter at work, and I supported him, even to the point of debating pro Carter in my classroom while 90% of my fellow gen-X'ers there thought I was crazy for doing so. It wasn't until late-term Reagan I started to really shift, though I considered myself a "Reagan Democrat" through most of his administration.

As I look back from now to then, and in observation of the Democrat party to which it has become, I see less and less traditional Democrats, more leftist that really have hijacked that party (though much of the same in the Rep party as well). Even CPUSA endorsed Obama. Now waiting for slurs and tags to be thrown, but neither am I a "Republican", though I do vote for them if the voting is good. I've had wonderful debates with Republicans, really good stuff, but yet not really anything rational with anyone with the little "democrat" tag next to their name. I think most of the rational ones get scared off from the hijackers so thus keep silent. Agree on your points btw.

[Pokesan]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well I started out that way as well, but I eventually faced a paradigm shift in my life. Although too young to vote, I was around to see Carter at work, and I supported him, even to the point of debating pro Carter in my classroom while 90% of my fellow gen-X'ers there thought I was crazy for doing so. It wasn't until late-term Reagan I started to really shift, though I considered myself a "Reagan Democrat" through most of his administration.

As I look back from now to then, and in observation of the Democrat party to which it has become, I see less and less traditional Democrats, more leftist that really have hijacked that party (though much of the same in the Rep party as well). Even CPUSA endorsed Obama. Now waiting for slurs and tags to be thrown, but neither am I a "Republican", though I do vote for them if the voting is good. I've had wonderful debates with Republicans, really good stuff, but yet not really anything rational with anyone with the little "democrat" tag next to their name. I think most of the rational ones get scared off from the hijackers so thus keep silent. Agree on your points btw.

dude next time you feel like writing a wall of text like this? just write "I'm a dumbass" and save us the seconds

[Zugsmash]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im going to try to have a discussion about the failed conservative movement vs the neverending march of progress.

I will list a few examples of failed conservative programs please, if you think conservatism is the way to go, feel free to post a failed progressive program or ideal.

Try to refrain from posting your opinions on whether something has failed, or at least try to find bipartisan support that indicates that the ideal or program you posted about is indeed a failure.

Examples of Conservative policies, programs or ideals that are complete and total failures:

The War on Drugs - This is a catastrophic failure that has done nothing to stop drug use and in many cases increased crime and drug use across the nation. The very idea that it is still an active policy is depressing.

Privatised Prison system - It's in the fucking constitution, just like the 2nd amendment is, that we should not live under the threat of cruel and unusual punishment. But nobody seems to care about that.

Standardized Testing/No child left behind - This is the most retarded way to think about education. it is a complete and total failure.

Trickle Down Economics - There are no economists that disagree that this is a myth

Nixon’s National Health Insurance proposal of 1974 - Basically the patient zero for the complete meltdown of any semblance of healthcare america ever had, resulting in the failed system we have been trying to change for the last 8 years.

the list does and will go on and on... go ahead, name me one known failed progressive system.

PS one thing you can connect all the dots to when it comes to republican policy - they all are designed to disenfranchise black americans. So if you're going to be honest, then they are all quite successful.. the problem is if you're going to be honest, you're a racist piece of shit neocon.

You really hate Conservatives. Lets see what your amazing DEMs have done for us in the past.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt - Created the Welfare system and every Dem has used that atrocity to secure votes and keep people in poverty.

That system has millions of American's being comfortable sitting at home collecting money while everyone else pays for them.

President Jimmy Carter - Stopped our money being backed by Gold and placed on the Fiat system. Created Department of Energy and Department of Education. Just keep making the Federal Gov't BIGGER! Nothing else needs to be said.

President Bill Clinton - Went to the Federal Reserve, AIG and other major lenders and told them to make it easier for people to get housing loans. So, what did this create. It had people getting housing loans for more than they could possibly pay back.

How is this possible??

You went to your local bank. You asked for a $400,000 loan for a house. The local bank knew you could only afford a house for $200,000 but gave you the 400k loan anyways. Why you ask?? Because the bank would immediately sell your mortgage loan to the Federal Reserve. So, when you defaulted it wouldn't be local bank out of money on that loan it fell on the Federal Reserve holding that mortgage.

This is what created the housing market crash! Not Bush.

This is the reason the economy was booming during Clinton. People were getting loans they couldn't afford because local banks did not have to worry about you defaulting on the loan.

President Obama- Socialist Muslim doing his best to destroy the fabric of everything this country has stood for. At every turn he has sympathized with Muslim groups and released 5 of the most dangerous detainees in GTMO for a fucking Army deserter without any type of approval. He is constantly playing on the violence in America to create riots and do everything possible to abolish the 2nd Amendment.

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Zugsmash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You really hate Conservatives. Lets see what your amazing DEMs have done for us in the past.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt - Created the Welfare system and every Dem has used that atrocity to secure votes and keep people in poverty.

That system has millions of American's being comfortable sitting at home collecting money while everyone else pays for them.

awesome, glad someone wants to list democratic failures! But this first one, is STILL not a failure, it keeps many people that deserve the help that they are getting, in their homes and their children fed. Did you know the LARGEST abuser of the welfare system, is conservative champion... WALLMART!.. of course you knew that, but do you care? NO because of some insane reason, likely republican payed for & run media campaigns.

Originally Posted by Zugsmash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

President Jimmy Carter - Stopped our money being backed by Gold and placed on the Fiat system. Nothing else needs to be said.

I would like for you to explain this in moe detail, but most importantly WHY is it a failure? (I created this thread to learn)

Originally Posted by Zugsmash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

President Bill Clinton - Went to the Federal Reserve, AIG and other major lenders and told them to make it easier for people to get housing loans. So, what did this create. It had people getting housing loans for more than they could possibly pay back.

How is this possible??

You went to your local bank. You asked for a $400,000 loan for a house. The local bank knew you could only afford a house for $200,000 but gave you the 400k loan anyways. Why you ask?? Because the bank would immediately sell your mortgage loan to the Federal Reserve. So, when you defaulted it wouldn't be local bank out of money on that loan it fell on the Federal Reserve holding that mortgage.

This is what created the housing market crash! Not Bush.

This is the reason the economy was booming during Clinton. People were getting loans they couldn't afford because local banks did not have to worry about you defaulting on the loan.

ok you are incorrect here, but these are ALL claims ironically used in republican attack campaigns during every election cycle, but whats so glorious abou them is they wer used in SARA PALINS eleciton cycle, so lol way to go quoting some raelly great stuff here.

The truth is the housing crisis was caused by BI PARTISAN stuff.. yes, clinton pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families.

but as damning as that is, bush equally is at fault for failing to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage backed market.

but who is to blame for americans buying more than they can afford? ALAN GREENSPAN! A... you guesed it, REPUBLICAN! In 2004 it was his assurance and encouragement that americans could continue to do this, causing the bubble to reach an all time high.

[Zugsmash]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

awesome, glad someone wants to list democratic failures! But this first one, is STILL not a failure, it keeps many people that deserve the help that they are getting, in their homes and their children fed. Did you know the LARGEST abuser of the welfare system, is conservative champion... WALLMART!.. of course you knew that, but do you care? NO because of some insane reason, likely republican payed for & run media campaigns..

This has made it comfortable to be poor. Why should I have to work when I can get paid for being lazy and collecting a pay check from people that actually try to make a better life for themselves.

The States should take care of the unfortunate people not able to work for legitimate reasons. The burden of cost should not be on the Federal Government.

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would like for you to explain this in moe detail, but most importantly WHY is it a failure? (I created this thread to learn)..

DEMs fix to a hurting economy is tossing more money at it. Carter was not able to have the Federal Reserve print more bills to circulate into the economy because that would exceed the our Nations gold. The Fiat system allows the Federal Reserve to print as much money as they want.

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ok you are incorrect here, but these are ALL claims ironically used in republican attack campaigns during every election cycle, but whats so glorious abou them is they wer used in SARA PALINS eleciton cycle, so lol way to go quoting some raelly great stuff here.

The truth is the housing crisis was caused by BI PARTISAN stuff.. yes, clinton pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families.

but as damning as that is, bush equally is at fault for failing to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage backed market.

but who is to blame for americans buying more than they can afford? ALAN GREENSPAN! A... you guesed it, REPUBLICAN! In 2004 it was his assurance and encouragement that americans could continue to do this, causing the bubble to reach an all time high.

Alan Greenspan was trying his best. That housing beast was started in 1994-96 way before 2004. Everything after that was damage control. Federal reserve had already been taking a hit from thousands upon thousands of American's defaulting on the loans held by the Federal Reserve.


However, something HAS to change in our society. We need politicians held accountable. Starting with local government in your cities. We need people to want to better themselves and think outside the box. For to long millions of American's have sought and relied on the Government to fix their problems. If this continues being the norm..

The United States will be a once great Nation like Greece and Rome in the History books.

[Filthy_Pagan]

And like most progressives, he wont just stop. Even when he's defeated and knows he's wrong. Facts are fascist!