8th Ring // Cloki

[Swish]

Yeah I get it, you managed to carve out your own tier on your own rules...and kept high enough zerg levels of membership to dictate to influence how the tier was going to work.

You guys were class C level but refusing to move up, that's all it ever was.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah I get it, you managed to carve out your own tier on your own rules...and kept high enough zerg levels of membership to dictate to influence how the tier was going to work.

You guys were class C level but refusing to move up, that's all it ever was.

Go ahead and define class C level for me.

[Corpsed]

Senies, after reading this I have a few questions:

Is your first language English?
Are you using a voice to text program?
Is your only argument that the guy posted a Rant/Flame, which is against his guild charter?

[Tuljin]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Go ahead and define class C level for me.

After a while it became plainly obvious that the only difference between C and R was access to VP. BDA had enough keyed toons to kill VP dragons for quite some time but instead hijacked the rules to turn R into "C Lite"

Now that no such bottleneck exists, any guild can kill anything in Velious. Even the small "Class R" guilds manage to kill pretty much everything.

I honestly wish I cared enough to stir up as much shit as Swish does cause it brings me joy to see exactly how the half-literate sociopaths who are "guild leaders" on this server explain and justify their ludicrous behavior. This server is completely fucked and its the "hardcore raid guilds" have shaped the completely fucking backwards and nonsensical approach to EQ that people are forced to adopt when they play here. The attitude of this server over the years has become absolute shit.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Tuljin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

After a while it became plainly obvious that the only difference between C and R was access to VP. BDA had enough keyed toons to kill VP dragons for quite some time but instead hijacked the rules to turn R into "C Lite"

That's what I was trying to say, I wish I could get it out in a paragraph - thanks Tuljin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Tuljin]

Lol both Swish and I were typing up a storm at the same time =)

[Swish]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Go ahead and define class C level for me.

Is this where you say "oh, but we're a casual family guild that doesn't fit that framework!"

You're up in the same league as Rampage/Forsaken and you know it. I've seen and been impressed at the quickness BDA managed to engage Innoruuk. A well oiled raiding machine.. that's what I'd define a Class C guild as, and one with a lot of VP keys which you were able to easily bank up in your Class R time.

I think you'll choose to reinterpret what a Class R guild is. Is a Class R guild one with 40+ concurrent applications? Should a Class R guild be poopsocking with 30+ people before a mob spawns? Is that a sign of casual raiding? I don't think so.

The blue raid scene towards the end of Kunark was shit show designed for 2 guilds in C and 2 guilds in R. Sure, Class R had that 3rd window with BDA/Taken lockouts, but that was often for Omni/Europa/Azure Guard who were effectively splitting 1 slot between 3 and not particularly healthy for anyone.

The scene also stifled new guilds which often collapsed and saw BDA/Taken or Rampage/Forsaken picking up more applicants, and stifled new raid leadership as a result. Same old shit, same old leaders spewing the same old rhetoric.

I feel really sorry for anyone who applied to a zerg guild, probably not knowing that their first raid pixels wouldn't be for months of attending every single raid and watching them go to someone's 6th alt who rarely logs in.

BDA/Taken.... Class C guilds who choose to compete below their gear/key level. Very bad for the server's health. If a rigid class system emerges again I hope the GMs will refuse to allow you into the casual tier.

[Tuljin]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Same old shit, same old leaders spewing the same old rhetoric.

Exactly this. Congratulations guys, this server fucking sucks, and you all have been at it HARD for....years.

Have fun, you "win"

[Kekephee]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I feel really sorry for anyone who applied to a zerg guild, probably not knowing that their first raid pixels wouldn't be for months of attending every single raid and watching them go to someone's 6th alt who rarely logs in.

False. How do I know? Because I was one of those people who joined BDA immediately after the rotation formed.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Tuljin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

After a while it became plainly obvious that the only difference between C and R was access to VP. BDA had enough keyed toons to kill VP dragons for quite some time but instead hijacked the rules to turn R into "C Lite"

Now that no such bottleneck exists, any guild can kill anything in Velious. Even the small "Class R" guilds manage to kill pretty much everything.

I honestly wish I cared enough to stir up as much shit as Swish does cause it brings me joy to see exactly how the half-literate sociopaths who are "guild leaders" on this server explain and justify their ludicrous behavior. This server is completely fucked and its the "hardcore raid guilds" have shaped the completely fucking backwards and nonsensical approach to EQ that people are forced to adopt when they play here. The attitude of this server over the years has become absolute shit.

Nothing in Kunark is hard except for Hoshkar and maybe Gore on an off day. That's been the case for YEARS. When there was no rotation BDA still wasn't getting any kills in VP because of legalized training. So your next point, number of keys. How many is "enough" because you can kill the easy dragons with 12-18 level 60s with a perfect group composition but that's assuming you can get the tag cleanly and win the race to FTE. You can't make your point saying old content is easy and in the same post tell me BDA had enough keys to kill VP shit, the mitigating factor was always the level of competition. You had to have the ability to pull 24 solid players at the drop of a hat to compete in VP. That's actually still the case for PD and no one has called her except for Rampage in at least the last month.

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is this where you say "oh, but we're a casual family guild that doesn't fit that framework!"

You're up in the same league as Rampage/Forsaken and you know it. I've seen and been impressed at the quickness BDA managed to engage Innoruuk. A well oiled raiding machine.. that's what I'd define a Class C guild as, and one with a lot of VP keys which you were able to easily bank up in your Class R time.

I think you'll choose to reinterpret what a Class R guild is. Is a Class R guild one with 40+ concurrent applications? Should a Class R guild be poopsocking with 30+ people before a mob spawns? Is that a sign of casual raiding? I don't think so.

The blue raid scene towards the end of Kunark was shit show designed for 2 guilds in C and 2 guilds in R. Sure, Class R had that 3rd window with BDA/Taken lockouts, but that was often for Omni/Europa/Azure Guard who were effectively splitting 1 slot between 3 and not particularly healthy for anyone.

The scene also stifled new guilds which often collapsed and saw BDA/Taken or Rampage/Forsaken picking up more applicants, and stifled new raid leadership as a result. Same old shit, same old leaders spewing the same old rhetoric.

I feel really sorry for anyone who applied to a zerg guild, probably not knowing that their first raid pixels wouldn't be for months of attending every single raid and watching them go to someone's 6th alt who rarely logs in.

BDA/Taken.... Class C guilds who choose to compete below their gear/key level. Very bad for the server's health. If a rigid class system emerges again I hope the GMs will refuse to allow you into the casual tier.

The difference between a class R guild and class C guild was always the level to which a guild would dedicate itself to chasing targets. There's a massive difference between 3 class R targets in a weekend versus every class C, FFA, and VP target. I'm not sure why you don't comprehend that.

There could have been a rotation until the end of kunark if the other guilds had wanted to work out a proposal. Three guilds wanted tighter rules, the others didn't, so the whole thing went class C light. I didn't enjoy it, ask anyone that knows me; but I preferred that to the broken system that was being taken advantage of.