Game Mechanics: Offensive casts should not require pre LoS check

[Syft-X]

Originally Posted by Technique [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not even the mitigation so much as it is the hit rate. A melee in Kunark gear has an ~83% hit chance vs. a 255 AGI caster.

If I had to guess (and if p99's hit chance function resembles stock emu), then I'd say BaseHitChance is simply too high for PvP.

Your right but that is mainly because the only factor in "Hits" is determined solely by weapon skill, Hits aren't currently rolling against the targets AC just their own weapon skill.

It's also max hit dmg. People are getting practically one shoted by rogues atm.

[Technique]

Originally Posted by Syft-X [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your right but that is mainly because the only factor in "Hits" is determined solely by weapon skill, Hits aren't currently rolling against the targets AC just their own weapon skill.

No.

Displayed AC is a combination of "avoidance" AC and "mitigation" AC.

Two factors compose avoidance AC: AGI and defense skill.

The hit chance calc takes into account the AGI and defense skill of the defender. The higher they are, the lower the chance the defender is hit.

Originally Posted by Null [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right, Agi and Defense have bearing on avoidance, not the raw AC stat in your character panel.

[Syft-X]

Originally Posted by Technique [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No.

Displayed AC is a combination of "avoidance" AC and "mitigation" AC.

Two factors compose avoidance AC: AGI and defense skill.

The hit chance calc takes into account the AGI and defense skill of the defender. The higher they are, the lower the chance the defender is hit.

Yea but that's still not modifying hit/miss rates

Defense currently is just adding AC, AGI Adds AC and avoidance(Dodge). AC currently is effecting mitigation for dmg but not hit/miss rates.

Hits are currently rolling solely off the melee's equipped skill in weapon. That's why your seeing an 83% vs such high agility, your only getting 17% for dodge and failed hit rolls. VS it being calculated by the Melee's chance to hit different AC opponents.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that's spot on.

[Nirgon]

Yeah I gotta agree that its the hit rate




As far as tweaking?

Should parse a full warlord warrior vs a full carmine wizard

Classic SSes show lots of low ball melee damage against the highest geared Velious tanks... but a surprising amount of high damage hits (esp backstabs) vs clerics in full kael with really good shields

Can't summon gear here or I'd be able to test

Pls gief gear summon power on beta for testing and comparing... hell give it to Technique instead of me, just need some player input



AGI... not sure if it really did anything in classic other than be a cap to meet lest u take an AC penalty

[Syft-X]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah I gotta agree that its the hit rate




As far as tweaking?

Should parse a full warlord warrior vs a full carmine wizard

Classic SSes show lots of low ball melee damage against the highest geared Velious tanks... but a surprising amount of high damage hits (esp backstabs) vs clerics in full kael with really good shields

Can't summon gear here or I'd be able to test

Pls gief gear summon power on beta for testing and comparing... hell give it to Technique instead of me, just need some player input



AGI... not sure if it really did anything in classic other than be a cap to meet lest u take an AC penalty

Well you have to agree your guild currently relies on melee dmg and monk trains, you wouldn't disagree with anything that might cause pixel lose.

[1grumpydorf]

Not sure how much of the current live formula was in place back then, but it was posted by Dev Dzarn to the forums a few years back for the number crunchers.
Dev starts in about halfway down the post and shows a bunch of the formulas.

Here's the link.
https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/i...s-acv2.210028/

Okay, this is something I've been researching over the last few days to present.
What is your 'Real AC'?
Or, When 'Mitigation AC' meets 'Avoidance AC'

Hopefully this will shed some light on the arcane calculations used to get the number you see in your inventory window versus the number used for some mitigation and avoidance purposes.

I'll preface this by saying that this may generate more questions than I am able to answer in the near future, but this is as complete of an answer as I can offer at the moment.

So you want to know what your 'Real AC' is? I'll step you through the calculations and explain why the number you see in your inventory window is not representative of what NPCs look at when they're hitting you in melee combat. It is a strong possibility that sometime in the future the number you see in your inventory window will be accurately reflective of the number we're going to calculate here, but this will hopefully be helpful in the meantime....


Just posting as an fyi, not sure if any of it relates to classic

[Technique]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Classic SSes show lots of low ball melee damage against the highest geared Velious tanks... but a surprising amount of high damage hits (esp backstabs) vs clerics in full kael with really good shields

That's because EQ's mitigation mechanics affect only the probability distribution of damage, not its range of possible values.

This approach works fine when tanking a dumb NPC that does nothing but swing at the player repeatedly for several minutes until one or the other dies, but it's shit for PvP where people are jousting with backstabs and 53dmg two-handers.

[Syft-X]

Originally Posted by 1grumpydorf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not sure how much of the current live formula was in place back then, but it was posted by Dev Dzarn to the forums a few years back for the number crunchers.
Dev starts in about halfway down the post and shows a bunch of the formulas.

Here's the link.
https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/i...s-acv2.210028/

Okay, this is something I've been researching over the last few days to present.
What is your 'Real AC'?
Or, When 'Mitigation AC' meets 'Avoidance AC'

Hopefully this will shed some light on the arcane calculations used to get the number you see in your inventory window versus the number used for some mitigation and avoidance purposes.

I'll preface this by saying that this may generate more questions than I am able to answer in the near future, but this is as complete of an answer as I can offer at the moment.

So you want to know what your 'Real AC' is? I'll step you through the calculations and explain why the number you see in your inventory window is not representative of what NPCs look at when they're hitting you in melee combat. It is a strong possibility that sometime in the future the number you see in your inventory window will be accurately reflective of the number we're going to calculate here, but this will hopefully be helpful in the meantime....


Just posting as an fyi, not sure if any of it relates to classic

Although the numbers may not correlate to classic the ratio/modifiers of this formula are pretty close to other MMO's of this era.

The problem here is I don't think avoidance is being calculated in reference to hit/miss but rather dodge/parry rates.

I could be wrong but it seems like hit/miss rates are being calculated by a percentage roll vs weapon skill as a modifier without taking the opponents AC into consideration.

[Technique]

Originally Posted by Syft-X [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem here is I don't think avoidance is being calculated in reference to hit/miss but rather dodge/parry rates.

I could be wrong but it seems like hit/miss rates are being calculated by a percentage roll vs weapon skill as a modifier without taking the opponents AC into consideration.

The guesses you're making are just way off the mark.

Chance to dodge/parry/block/riposte isn't affected by any factor other than the level of the skill.

And if you'd looked at the link I posted to some of the parses I did on the beta server last year, you should've noticed the big difference in hit chance (25%) when attacking the same warrior, naked and geared.

[Syft-X]

Originally Posted by Technique [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The guesses you're making are just way off the mark.

Chance to dodge/parry/block/riposte isn't affected by any factor other than the level of the skill.

And if you'd looked at the link I posted to some of the parses I did on the beta server last year, you should've noticed the big difference in hit chance (25%) when attacking the same warrior, naked and geared.

And that could be but is that because his dodge parry riposte is off with less stats? or because his Ac is lower