Isn't there a better way to distribute raid loot? If not which is most fair?

[Kayd]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ROLEPLAY SCENARIO

Guild A gets a shot at Trakanon once every few months due to the raid scene on the server. Donal's BP drops, straight up /random happens, the cleric who logs in once a month for raids happens to win the BP over clerics who have been raiding consistently with the guild. In this exercise, you will roleplay a guild leader frantically trying to convince all those other clerics to remain with your guild and devising a new method of distributing high-value/high-rarity loot...

That depends on how many people in the guild are more casual players. If it's only a few then you are probably right. However, what we know about human nature says that random reinforcement is more effective at getting people to invest more time and effort, so if you have a high enough percentage of more casual players then you are more likely to get higher participation in events if more casual players have at least a non-zero chance of getting something great.

[kaev]

Originally Posted by Kayd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That depends on how many people in the guild are more casual players. If it's only a few then you are probably right. However, what we know about human nature says that random reinforcement is more effective at getting people to invest more time and effort, so if you have a high enough percentage of more casual players then you are more likely to get higher participation in events if more casual players have at least a non-zero chance of getting something great.

And thereafter you have an ever-changing cast of quasi-motivated randoms who have no real interest in learning/improving strategy & tactics and who also have no real commitment to making the guild better. Meanwhile the players who did want to do something requiring more personal investment than queuing up for a dungeon run with other randoms have all left for guilds that reward players who put effort into to making the guild better. Congratulations, you get to /ran armor drops in the planes once in a while when you happen to find them unoccupied and your guild never kills any dragon/god again because the motivated guilds have cleared all targets before you got around to bringing a force to engage.


BTW, and despite the mildly negative tone of my comment, I knew of guilds on live that were happy to play that way. So if it works for you go for it.

[Tanthallas]

Its not about control over your items. It is not about YOU period. You are turning the DKP system into something it is not, or I should say giving it a reason for being that was not its reason for being.

The reason for our DKP system, and most others I would assume, was not to cater to individual members desire to have control over what they get and when they get it - individuals will always be contending with others who want the same control they will never have because of that very competition. The primary reason is to have a system of loot distribution that, once constructed, moves according to its own logic and does not rely on the decisions of a few to distribute anything. The rules are set in stone, and it goes.

Now if people want to collude amongst their classes and deflate the value of their class items, let them. If every class colludes it would make the deflation that occurs in all class specific values irrelevant.

[khanable]

There is pros and cons to all systems. I greatly prefer loot council systems that use metrics to back up their decisions; metrics such as attendance percentage, DKP, how recently a player has been awarded another item, etc. It allows players that put in the time to get the items they want while also keeping the progression of the guild as a whole in check. That's simply my taste, however. I'm sure other systems work perfectly fine for groups of players.

[Alanus]

On progression server (The Combine), in Realm of Insanity, we used an award system. It worked well because we were only in each expansion for a month or two (since we would unlock the next one pretty quickly), so we needed the most bang for our buck. Never heard complaining about loot, either. I am guessing being in each expansion for a month or two made most people not care too much about the current expansions loot.

On live, we used a DKP system where you could bid up to 2x your points, and if you bid at least half the max bid, you would roll your bid. The item could would be half the max bid. I.e. if Item X drops, and you bid 200 points, and someone else bids 500, you wouldn't roll since 500 / 2 = 250 and then the item cost would be 250. If you bid 300, then you would roll 300 while the person who bid 500 would roll 500. Highest roll won and had the item's cost subtracted from their dkp. It worked well and if you were willing to bid more, you had a better chance at the item. The downside was, our first Aten kill, a ranger who was hoarding DKP won the neck quest piece, and I don't think he was not ready to blow all his DKP on it and he never logged in again after that. But I suppose you have that possibility with any loot system.

[Pan]

The one thing that I think is missing from this conversation is the question of:

"Fair" in one moment on one item vs. "fair" over time.

Arguably, there are very few single awards that are 100pct spot-on/perfect/accurate/fair...in that there's not a case to be made for that award to go to someone else in that moment.

However, irrespective of the system (DKP vs. loot council in this conversation), the more important question is the system working well (for you and everyone else) over time?

DKP can be buggered with. Loot councils can make bad decisions. That's just how it is. Mitigating the buggering and mistakes is really key to a robust, fair-over-time loot system.

All that said, if you (not the OP, particularly...just the reader) are the type of person who is gonna throw a fit about a single item/award and make it just painful for your guild to want to get and distribute loot, you might want to invest in a mirror and look there for problems before looking elsewhere.

Or, in other words, one of the major problems with most loot systems is the intrinsically, inherently greedy and entitled people. No matter how fair the system is, they'll always be victims. If you find yourself the *only* person constantly being victimized by loot awards, perhaps the problem is with you rather than the system.

[ttime123]

I have been in both types and there are good and bad in both, you need to make up your mind whats the best of both and go in that type of guild. I'am sick and tired of the raiding, i have been doing it for 5 years in another mmo. I have came to 1999 to get away from it all, just realxing and having fun right now. Raiding can make people become nasty, and greedy.

[Scoresby]

DKP 2.0 i.e. EP/GP

http://www.epgpweb.com/help/system

The math behind it is crazy elegant.

Basically, having a gigantic DKP pool doesn't mean you win everything, but it does mean you get the lion's share. As soon as lower members get a bone, you're back on top immediately. The more you show up, the less decay affects you (rewarding attendance). While decay also discourages hoarding, if you don't have anything worth spending it on no worries. You will never be passed in priority as long as you have good attendance. Ensuring hardcore raiders can still get what they most desire (just not the next 10 of those things).

[fastboy21]

One solution is to stop caring about loot. Then it won't matter how much you get or don't get. Then you'll have fun without worrying about pixels.

I realize that some folks would rather care about loot and be miserably stressed out over it...my solution isn't for you.

[Slayde]

This is the same argument as Capitalism vs. Communism. Both can be very good, or very bad. It depends on who is in charge. Ultimate power ultimately corrupts, and this server is rampant with it. So if you're looking for fair I would not start here. /2cents