Whats up with all those lazy clerics ?

[beyondinfin]

If you suspect your cleric is lazy then boot them. I leveled my 60 cleric, and I can tell you it's not about being lazy it's about having an available mana pool to SAVE THE GROUP. Maybe you've noticed EQ is a cruel mistress, and when things go bad (trains, adds, LDs etc) your cleric better have SOME mana saved up. Im not saying the cleric should never nuke, but you never know what is about to happen. Yes I spent lots of time sitting on my lazy cleric ass, but you better believe when those 3-4 adds come into camp all at once, Im not gonna be LOM if I can help it. Would you rather I sit, med and save mana for that worst case scenario or just nuke, cc and whatever else you expect despite the inevitable hour long, camp losing CR the group will have to do when Im OOM and things go bad? It is very situational how to manage your mana as a cleric, and Id say it is up to you to talk with your groups cleric to find that balance of safety, exp and mana.

Now if your cleric is late, slow, not responding to chat then that is a shitty cleric. A good cleric is engaging, not AFK or unresponsive, and willing to strategize with the puller/chanter/dps to make the group effective regardless of the situation. Good clerics are hard to find like good chanters. MAKE FRIENDS WITH THE GOOD ONES!

[Mistle]

If the cleric has mana to be screwing around with things like nukes the puller isn't doing HIS job. Maximum group efficiency doesn't come from the cleric using every utility tool in the spellbook. I keep the stun loaded for when it might matter, and root is there for mobs on either me or the enchanter (not the enchanter's own pet though, I will not root that unless it is absolutely murdering him). I symbol the tank for cheal efficiency and the enchanter for a buffer. Everyone else lives with hb.

And after that? I med. And the puller better be bringing mobs fast enough to make sure I CONTINUE to med. Adds are the enchanter's problem. DPS needs to manage its aggro. If either of them can't handle that to the point that I have to start putting brakes on pulls to maintain a safe mana level, then they are not doing their job. If I have fm too often then the puller is not doing HIS job (or we're in a lousy camp spot). So if the cleric is doing utility stuff? Either the cleric isn't managing their mana properly, or someone else isn't doing their job.

Duoing with an enchanter is a different story, of course.

[fishingme]

hp/ac group buff, should always be on. I can see not wanting to symbol an enchanter for two reasons, one of which they are good at enchanter class, two they keep their rune up. Sorry, but unless you're charming far out of your league mobs, you shouldn't be having a problem. A lot harder for a cleric to waste a peridot on an enchanter that doesn't play his class well. But honestly, if you didn't ever fall below 50% in the group then there isn't any reason to complain, just means the cleric is confident enough to be able to heal you before you die. You getting aggro from many many mezzes, then memblur

[DrKvothe]

Buffs: ask for what you want. cleric has no idea what you've got on you when the group starts, and he shouldn't have to waste mana if he doesn't need to. say "can you please buff my hp with everything you've got wmp? thanks!"

Helping with cc/pet management: your jerb. do it right. he's heals, you're cc/pet

[Kreylyn]

I'm gonna start with some basic info to use as a reference.

A lv 40 cleric with pretty decent gear (read, NOT twinked) is what I'm baseing this info around.

219 wis + gear = mana pool of 1735.

Valor = 90 mana
Symb of Pin = 200 mana
Armor of Faith = 150 mana.

Buff just those on one char = 440 mana (not counting the lost regen from cast times). That's 25% of the mana pool.

Regen of 16 mana with out chanter buff... around (21 mana with) per 6 second tick. Lets say (since OP is chanter) that C1 is buffed on the lv 40 cleric...

440 mana at 21 regen rate = 21 ticks for full mana recover per, or 2 mins 6 sec. Lets just round that to 2 mins cause.... maths hard.

6 players, buff you self first because that's how you set a good timer right?

Buff yourself (25%), buff the chanter (25%) and buff the Tank (25%).... Now you have 25% mana left for the pull, and half the group still left to buff, and need straight 6 mins to med it back.

Complete heal = 400 mana.
Sup heal = 250 mana.
Greater heal = 150 mana.

So a pull comes in after your buff, you had 30 seconds after buffs before your first heal to be cast due to the pull...

Mana pool = aprox 500 with regen.

You currently have the option of...

1 complete heal leaving you with 100 mana... You will not cast another heal with out regening mana. You could cast 1 root at 60 mana, or... you could save that for a heal. What do you do... hrm?

2 Sup heals for 583 hps leaving you with 0 mana... OOM.

3 Forget healing, lets crowd control with the mana you have left.

Lets just say the cleric was "lazy"... and healed only... with option 2.


Fight is over, group wants to pull. You have 30 sec - 1 min before next pull comes in.

You regen 210 mana... . That's not even 1 sup heal.

Chanter gets agro from resist.

Chanter can't stun, root, CC their own mob.

Cleric has to heal.

Tank has taken dmg too... but you can only cast 1 heal on one character.

You regen just enough to cast Sup heal on chanter, finish fight with tank at 30%, chanter alive, mobs dead... cleric OOM.

8.5 mins now for full mana regen. 15 mins now for full mana regen and you buffed the other 3 chars... cuase you dont' want to be a lazy cleric right?

Are you gonna sit and wait for 15 mins for full regen? How many groups do you know that's up for that kind of down time?

So what really happens?

I join a group, I ask... "Any cleric or other buffs I need to know before I start buffing?"

If nothing that is better, or already on... I'll buff the quick... Valor on everyone. AC on those I know who will get hit (tank, cc, puller).

Symbol... is reserved for situational consideration. If the chanter is under level... I'll buff it. If the tank is taking a lot of dmg, I'll buff it. If we are having problems with proper CC and someone is off tanking, I'll buff em. Everyone in the group is not getting symbol unless there is a good reason for it. It's not lazy, it's simply mana conservation for being able to function as anything else in the group.

As an aside, if your not supposed to get hit, you should control your agro so you don't need symbol. (I'm talking dps or other non cc/tanking players). I will heal you to start, and I will communicate to you that you need to stop what your doing to draw agro. Then.. I will stop healing you. One way or another, people who are not supposed to get agro will learn. Death is a good teacher.

First pull immediately after buffing the basics, and I'm generally at 30-40% mana already. The next hour is fighting mana regen vs heals cast for pulls to get back towards 100%... so that when buffs wear off, I can recast them taking up nearly a full mana bar.

2 sup heals or 1 CH and I'm OOm for heals on that first pull.

Or... the entire group waits for regen.

I have a hotkey... "%t rooted, step away!" I use it when asked. Otherwise, my expectation is that the CC in the group know what they are doing, and can do THIER job or can communicate to the group what they need.... Jus sayn.

Can I do CC... sure. If there are other healers in the group, and mana regen ins't as important cause heals are covered, buffs are covered, then... I'll use other things. Stuns, roots, even DD cause why not... you can only hit 100% mana regen, you can't bank extra. I never just sit when 100% mana.

But when there IS a CC in the group... yeah, this lazy cleric expects you to do your jerb. If you CAN'T do your jerb, then at least communicate clearly what you need help with and why. Otherwise, until I'm 100% mana... I'm medn to prepare for that next heal. Cause... that is what a cleric does.

But... that's just my take. I'm sure others will have their own.

Krey

[harnold]

When i play a cleric and I don't buff or help the enchanter my groups still prevail so i see no reason having to spend the extra energy on a needy enchanter. Learn to play your class better

[Duncon]

Originally Posted by Kreylyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what really happens?

I join a group, I ask... "Any cleric or other buffs I need to know before I start buffing?"

If nothing that is better, or already on... I'll buff the quick... Valor on everyone. AC on those I know who will get hit (tank, cc, puller).

So you're not the lazy cleric he is talking about, you keep yer buffs up, etc. Good man.

[perditionparty]

Originally Posted by Kreylyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm gonna start with some basic info to use as a reference.

A lv 40 cleric with pretty decent gear (read, NOT twinked) is what I'm baseing this info around.

219 wis + gear = mana pool of 1735.

Valor = 90 mana
Symb of Pin = 200 mana
Armor of Faith = 150 mana.

Buff just those on one char = 440 mana (not counting the lost regen from cast times). That's 25% of the mana pool.

Regen of 16 mana with out chanter buff... around (21 mana with) per 6 second tick. Lets say (since OP is chanter) that C1 is buffed on the lv 40 cleric...

440 mana at 21 regen rate = 21 ticks for full mana recover per, or 2 mins 6 sec. Lets just round that to 2 mins cause.... maths hard.

6 players, buff you self first because that's how you set a good timer right?

Buff yourself (25%), buff the chanter (25%) and buff the Tank (25%).... Now you have 25% mana left for the pull, and half the group still left to buff, and need straight 6 mins to med it back.

Complete heal = 400 mana.
Sup heal = 250 mana.
Greater heal = 150 mana.

So a pull comes in after your buff, you had 30 seconds after buffs before your first heal to be cast due to the pull...

Mana pool = aprox 500 with regen.

You currently have the option of...

1 complete heal leaving you with 100 mana... You will not cast another heal with out regening mana. You could cast 1 root at 60 mana, or... you could save that for a heal. What do you do... hrm?

2 Sup heals for 583 hps leaving you with 0 mana... OOM.

3 Forget healing, lets crowd control with the mana you have left.

Lets just say the cleric was "lazy"... and healed only... with option 2.


Fight is over, group wants to pull. You have 30 sec - 1 min before next pull comes in.

You regen 210 mana... . That's not even 1 sup heal.

Chanter gets agro from resist.

Chanter can't stun, root, CC their own mob.

Cleric has to heal.

Tank has taken dmg too... but you can only cast 1 heal on one character.

You regen just enough to cast Sup heal on chanter, finish fight with tank at 30%, chanter alive, mobs dead... cleric OOM.

8.5 mins now for full mana regen. 15 mins now for full mana regen and you buffed the other 3 chars... cuase you dont' want to be a lazy cleric right?

Are you gonna sit and wait for 15 mins for full regen? How many groups do you know that's up for that kind of down time?

So what really happens?

I join a group, I ask... "Any cleric or other buffs I need to know before I start buffing?"

If nothing that is better, or already on... I'll buff the quick... Valor on everyone. AC on those I know who will get hit (tank, cc, puller).

Symbol... is reserved for situational consideration. If the chanter is under level... I'll buff it. If the tank is taking a lot of dmg, I'll buff it. If we are having problems with proper CC and someone is off tanking, I'll buff em. Everyone in the group is not getting symbol unless there is a good reason for it. It's not lazy, it's simply mana conservation for being able to function as anything else in the group.

As an aside, if your not supposed to get hit, you should control your agro so you don't need symbol. (I'm talking dps or other non cc/tanking players). I will heal you to start, and I will communicate to you that you need to stop what your doing to draw agro. Then.. I will stop healing you. One way or another, people who are not supposed to get agro will learn. Death is a good teacher.

First pull immediately after buffing the basics, and I'm generally at 30-40% mana already. The next hour is fighting mana regen vs heals cast for pulls to get back towards 100%... so that when buffs wear off, I can recast them taking up nearly a full mana bar.

2 sup heals or 1 CH and I'm OOm for heals on that first pull.

Or... the entire group waits for regen.

I have a hotkey... "%t rooted, step away!" I use it when asked. Otherwise, my expectation is that the CC in the group know what they are doing, and can do THIER job or can communicate to the group what they need.... Jus sayn.

Can I do CC... sure. If there are other healers in the group, and mana regen ins't as important cause heals are covered, buffs are covered, then... I'll use other things. Stuns, roots, even DD cause why not... you can only hit 100% mana regen, you can't bank extra. I never just sit when 100% mana.

But when there IS a CC in the group... yeah, this lazy cleric expects you to do your jerb. If you CAN'T do your jerb, then at least communicate clearly what you need help with and why. Otherwise, until I'm 100% mana... I'm medn to prepare for that next heal. Cause... that is what a cleric does.

But... that's just my take. I'm sure others will have their own.

Krey

Excellent write up

[mccraw5]

Originally Posted by Kreylyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm gonna start with some basic info to use as a reference.

A lv 40 cleric with pretty decent gear (read, NOT twinked) is what I'm baseing this info around.

219 wis + gear = mana pool of 1735.

Valor = 90 mana
Symb of Pin = 200 mana
Armor of Faith = 150 mana.

Buff just those on one char = 440 mana (not counting the lost regen from cast times). That's 25% of the mana pool.

Regen of 16 mana with out chanter buff... around (21 mana with) per 6 second tick. Lets say (since OP is chanter) that C1 is buffed on the lv 40 cleric...

440 mana at 21 regen rate = 21 ticks for full mana recover per, or 2 mins 6 sec. Lets just round that to 2 mins cause.... maths hard.

6 players, buff you self first because that's how you set a good timer right?

Buff yourself (25%), buff the chanter (25%) and buff the Tank (25%).... Now you have 25% mana left for the pull, and half the group still left to buff, and need straight 6 mins to med it back.

Complete heal = 400 mana.
Sup heal = 250 mana.
Greater heal = 150 mana.

So a pull comes in after your buff, you had 30 seconds after buffs before your first heal to be cast due to the pull...

Mana pool = aprox 500 with regen.

You currently have the option of...

1 complete heal leaving you with 100 mana... You will not cast another heal with out regening mana. You could cast 1 root at 60 mana, or... you could save that for a heal. What do you do... hrm?

2 Sup heals for 583 hps leaving you with 0 mana... OOM.

3 Forget healing, lets crowd control with the mana you have left.

Lets just say the cleric was "lazy"... and healed only... with option 2.


Fight is over, group wants to pull. You have 30 sec - 1 min before next pull comes in.

You regen 210 mana... . That's not even 1 sup heal.

Chanter gets agro from resist.

Chanter can't stun, root, CC their own mob.

Cleric has to heal.

Tank has taken dmg too... but you can only cast 1 heal on one character.

You regen just enough to cast Sup heal on chanter, finish fight with tank at 30%, chanter alive, mobs dead... cleric OOM.

8.5 mins now for full mana regen. 15 mins now for full mana regen and you buffed the other 3 chars... cuase you dont' want to be a lazy cleric right?

Are you gonna sit and wait for 15 mins for full regen? How many groups do you know that's up for that kind of down time?

So what really happens?

I join a group, I ask... "Any cleric or other buffs I need to know before I start buffing?"

If nothing that is better, or already on... I'll buff the quick... Valor on everyone. AC on those I know who will get hit (tank, cc, puller).

Symbol... is reserved for situational consideration. If the chanter is under level... I'll buff it. If the tank is taking a lot of dmg, I'll buff it. If we are having problems with proper CC and someone is off tanking, I'll buff em. Everyone in the group is not getting symbol unless there is a good reason for it. It's not lazy, it's simply mana conservation for being able to function as anything else in the group.

As an aside, if your not supposed to get hit, you should control your agro so you don't need symbol. (I'm talking dps or other non cc/tanking players). I will heal you to start, and I will communicate to you that you need to stop what your doing to draw agro. Then.. I will stop healing you. One way or another, people who are not supposed to get agro will learn. Death is a good teacher.

First pull immediately after buffing the basics, and I'm generally at 30-40% mana already. The next hour is fighting mana regen vs heals cast for pulls to get back towards 100%... so that when buffs wear off, I can recast them taking up nearly a full mana bar.

2 sup heals or 1 CH and I'm OOm for heals on that first pull.

Or... the entire group waits for regen.

I have a hotkey... "%t rooted, step away!" I use it when asked. Otherwise, my expectation is that the CC in the group know what they are doing, and can do THIER job or can communicate to the group what they need.... Jus sayn.

Can I do CC... sure. If there are other healers in the group, and mana regen ins't as important cause heals are covered, buffs are covered, then... I'll use other things. Stuns, roots, even DD cause why not... you can only hit 100% mana regen, you can't bank extra. I never just sit when 100% mana.

But when there IS a CC in the group... yeah, this lazy cleric expects you to do your jerb. If you CAN'T do your jerb, then at least communicate clearly what you need help with and why. Otherwise, until I'm 100% mana... I'm medn to prepare for that next heal. Cause... that is what a cleric does.

But... that's just my take. I'm sure others will have their own.

Krey

Two thoughts. One: Krey doing a write up on behalf of clerics in response to a chanter cracks me up. Mainly because Krey was an enchanter on live for many, many years. If you see him group with him. He may still have a soft spot in his heart for the chanter and buff/heal you. Two: Clerics are the most boxed chars of all time because there are never enough when grouping/raiding. Now that we are all on a server where boxing is not permitted, I'm ecstatic people play a cleric at all. We need more because I personally can't ever remember thinking "Wow, we have too many clerics in our guild and need to kick some out". Just remember everyone will have their own playstyle regarding their class. Of course if the cleric lets me die........then he's just a lazy sob.

Villkain

[fadetree]

Originally Posted by Polyphemous [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Melee peeling off mobs is usually a bad idea. You are probably breaking mez, and certainly decreasing the time the main mob takes to die. It might be required in some situations, but my ench gets pretty pissed at a 3 pull when the idiot ranger/ monk decides he just has to off-tank that 3rd mob that is hitting someone for the 8 seconds it takes me to get to it. And if it is 51+ it will now summon me, thanks guys.

The worst is when clerics are getting beat, and they either run around or just stand there bleating for help. Root is one of the most powerful spells in the game, and every character I've ever had with root never takes it off the spell bar.

You have got to be kidding. I'm not breaking mez, and I didn't say off tank. I know when to do it and when not to. Are you saying when you have two active mobs eating you because stun resist and two others in camp on tank and cleric you don't want me to snare one off of you and 'ranger mez' ( just stand there and keep snaring it, no dps ) or root park it? You'd rather I apply the 100DPS I can do before you go down?