Demand the Truth

[G13]

Originally Posted by Ket [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The thing that keeps me coming back here is when someone, like the fella above, proposes concise arguments that get ignored for the sake of continuing whatever ridiculous argument happens to be going on.

But hey, keep on attempting to add excitement into your otherwise dull lives by fabricating conspiracy theories. Your like that chick I dated when I was a teenager who would lie about silly shit just to make herself seem more interesting.

Wait, hold on ...That was a lie. I don't know any women.

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-Ket

His arguments are just parroting the bogus NIST report/Popular mechanics smoke screen

The building fell at freefall speed within it's footprint

Physics > Lies

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by Dr3am [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"I don't care about any of that. I want to know physically how the towers collapsed. I want to know why there was controlled demolition of tower 7. Those are the only questions I want answered. I don't care about anything beyond those two specific issues.

Answer my questions please."

I did a report on this for college years ago and I remember some of the details, so here goes. It has been a while so my details might be off here or there, but you get the picture.

1) Why did the steel girders melt at such low temperatures?
The answer to this lies within something called phase transitions when you heat metal. Sure the melting point of steel occurs much higher than jet fuel burns, but we don't need to melt the girders to make the building fall. At 700f industrial steel goes through its first phase transition and loses more than half of its tensile strength.
If you investigate the building itself you find that the steel coating the outside of the building is connected to a steel core in the middle of the building via steel trusses. These trusses keep the skin of the building in place, and as major wind forces hit the building it spreads the stress along the skin, through the trusses, and into the interior of the build. When the tensile strength of the buildings gave out, the trusses softened, causing the outside skin to buckle. Once this happened, the weigh to of the building above no longer was supported by the skin of the building in that area, resulting in the top of the building pushing down into nothing. This resulted in a collapse of the top of the building via the 6 stories of melted trusses. Look at it like a straw, and when you push straight down on the top of a straw it holds far more weight than it should due to the skin of the straw reinforcing itself throught its length. Now take the same straw and fold it then try to push down again- because the skin is no longer aligned the weight on top causes it to almost immediately give and no longer hold weight.

2) The buildings fell at the speed of freefall- had you dropped a penny from the top floor at the beginning of the collapse, it would impact the ground at the same time the top floor did.
This is true and the reasons behind it are amazing to consider. The building design (that I allude to above) was created for each floor to hold the static weight of all floors above it. In each case the buildings were struck with between 20 and 40 floors above them- and when they fell their weight became dynamic and not static. When that dynamic weight pushed on the floors below, it actually pulverized them because the static weight is nowhere near as immense as the dynamic weight. Bear in mind these buildings were not normal office buildings- they occupied an entire NY city block. Each. Their dynamic weight was so immense that the floors below could not even begin to resist it- they simply pulverized into dust. The forces involved when an entire city block sized 20 to 40 story building bears down on another force is hard to imagine much less calculate.

3) Tower 7 fell like a controlled demolition.
The lower floors of Tower 7 were completely obliterated by the falling debris by the trade centers, and all the load bearing structures on that floor were decimated. A key structural support that held the entire building together, at the center of the building, was destroyed. This is why the building was evacuated and expected to fall, and why it fell within its own footprint. It's actually a miracle that it stood as long as it did.

4) The twin towers fell like a controlled demolition.
http://www.cleveland.com/science/ind...1_attacks.html
Halfway down on the right hand side you will see a picture of the second tower collapsing at the initiation of the collapse. You can clearly see from this picture that the tower top fell to the left and then down, because the plane hollowed out and softened the support structures on the left of that tower.

A plausible explanation. Exactly what I had asked for, thank you.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Now another question. Without implying conspiracy but possibly implying government incompetence. Why were there no birds in the air in the just under eighteen minutes between tower one and tower two getting hit and then of course the Pentagon getting hit over a half hour later?

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Now another question. Without implying conspiracy but possibly implying government incompetence. Why were there no birds in the air in the just under eighteen minutes between tower one and tower two getting hit and then of course the Pentagon getting hit over a half hour later?

It takes 30 mins to an hour to scramble jets. Plus travel time. Do you think assholes sleep next to planes in the zero previous times these things happen?

[Nihilist_santa]

6 months before 9/11 a series created by Chris Carter as a spinoff to the X-Files called the lone gunmen aired its pilot in which the govt hijacks airplanes and flies them remotely. Also see my previous post and link regarding operation North Woods. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rsMG2hHsLo

Just because you perceive the govt to be inept does not mean that they are. There are countless secret operations performed daily. As to large scale events you realize the allies created an entire fake army to make the Germans think they were going to invade through Africa and Italy and not through France and it was kept entirely secret. Perhaps you are unaware that the atomic bomb was created entirely in secret as well. Just because you fail to believe something does not make it true. DUMB or bunkers have been kept secret for decades and require the use of many people to build. The Greenbriar Resort is one such place that was once secret.

Look at area 51. There are many theories about that location however there is little proof because *duh*secrecy. So those are just a handful of examples which sink those arguments.

[Nihilist_santa]

Witnesses in building 7 claim to have heard explosions inside the building. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERhoNYj9_fg

[G13]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWfsOgRm-pk

Skull and Bones 322

322 = Genesis 3:22

Genesis 3:22 (KJV) - And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

[Ket]

You're* - Damn the devil and his typos.

[paulgiamatti]

Well, there you have it folks. G13 obviously has way too much invested in his conspiracy fetish to consider any kind of capitulation to solid facts and research. His enjoyment of the conspiracy is much more important to him than boring, dull facts. I guess I can't really blame him too much, it is pretty boring.

[G13]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, there you have it folks. G13 obviously has way too much invested in his conspiracy fetish to consider any kind of capitulation to solid facts and research. His enjoyment of the conspiracy is much more important to him than boring, dull facts. I guess I can't really blame him too much, it is pretty boring.

What facts?

The NIST Report is propaganda. Not facts.

Please show me any other tall building in history that ever collapsed within it's footprint (at freefall speed) due to fire

NIST never factored in fire accelerants in their report. This is standard for all building fire investigations.

More than 1000 architects and engineers disagree with NIST's claim that fires brought down building 7. That list is growing. No engineer peer reviewed the NIST report nor was the final report signed off by one. Go ahead. Read it. No engineer listed on the report was ever given all the evidence. On the contrary, the evidence was divided up between different groups of investigators/engineers who looked at individual evidence in a vacuum. Not within the context of a macro investigation as a whole.

The NIST computer model did not match the actual collapse

The NIST report ignored testimony from several key witnesses, such as Matthys Levy which contradicted their claims as to the actual time the fire started. This is crucial because their testimony confirms fires started in the building before the WTC collapse. Not after.

NIST lied about the duration and temperatures of the fires in their report

NIST has never published their modeling data. They also ignored all physical and eyewitness testimony that conflicted with their report

NIST never calculated thermal conductivity in their bogus models. Steel doesn't conduct heat? They also never calculated thermal expansion of the concrete floors as well. It's called "rigging the game" to achieve the desired results = propaganda and lies

NIST completely omitted sheer studs from their model. I can't tell you how critical this is and how that fact alone obliterates that bogus post you want to trumpet. In their original preliminary report they did in fact report these studs. They were omitted in the final report. This all has to do with their bogus theory regarding thermal expansion.

NIST completely ignored all eyewitness reports of explosions before the building came down

They had to do all this trickery to discover a "new kind of collapse" never seen before in the history of buildings

All your government ever does is lie to you

Wake up