Bard swarming ruins classic experience.

[zanderklocke]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If we had classic mechanics this would be less of an issue.

Swarm kiting would be an option and allow bards to kill in several other zones.

For everyone that is confused, he is talking about charm-swarm kiting here...as many people for some reason seem to interchangeably use swarm and AoE kiting to mean the same thing.

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also for some reason PBAE DoTs from bards don't decrease in value if the mob is moving?

Oh man, bards would take even longer to kill mobs. People would love this.

Hmm...I suppose I never really thought about this mechanic though; targeted DoTs increase in damage if mob is fleeing. Why wouldn't PBAOE songs work the same way?

[Atmas]

Kind of sounds like the bards are doing you a favor because most of the places you are trying to group have terrible ZEM modifiers.

[Taminy]

Originally Posted by MilanderTruewield [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Evade rarely works pre-20. Warriors at this level suck at keeping agro due to the dependency they have on proccing weapons in order to keep agro. Thus, my rogue constantly gets agro. I hit evade after every BS, if not more often, and I turn attack off if the mob turns to agro me. I still have agro for the rest of the fight. When a pally or SK is tanking, as long as they know what they are doing, they can keep agro.

Not all twinks are bad. Just the majority [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you're grouped with a warrior (or trioing with a healer) have someone root the mob then use proximity aggro.

[Klapton]

I am a little disturbed by people thinking some kind of nerf is the answer to this problem. The answer is for those Bards to stop being bogarts.

I would also like to point out, not that it's going to help much, that people are using the wrong terminology to describe this solo technique. "Swarm Kiting" is actually a method that uses a large group of "social" mobs by proximity aggro, then charming one to attack the others. The "swarm" beats the pet down very quickly. When the pet is almost dead, charm is broken, and the former pet "chanted" down to finish it off. The Bard gets the full xp for the mob. Rinse repeat until the "swarm" is dead.

What people are describing here is simply "AE Kiting." As others have noted, AE kiting has been around since the game began.

The places where this can be done are limited. I agree that it is especially annoying when a Bard bogarts in newbie zones, making it difficult or impossible for newbie groups to xp. At higher levels, I'm less sympathetic to non-bard players who can't simply find somewhere else to go.

[Daldaen]

I've tried swarm kiting on this server and social mobs don't properly assist onto your charmed pet. The only time they do is when your pet goes under 20% and gets low HP aggro.

The only reason they wouldn't assist in classic is if you previously charmed the mob (1 charm was sufficient aggro for them to ignore your new pet and chase you) or if you had DoT'd them once or twice.

To Zander, sort of. But the DoTs don't increase, they instead decrease. If a mob is moving it take 66% of the total damage from a DoT. Meaning your Chords and Denons are doing 33% more damage than they should be doing. Since they don't currently differentiate between a fleeing/stationary or a mobile mob.

That being said, it is *possible* they were special and didn't decrease at all while moving (everything else about bards is broken anyways). But that would be impossible to prove because as I stated before, no one saw DoT damage until LoY.

[zanderklocke]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've tried swarm kiting on this server and social mobs don't properly assist onto your charmed pet. The only time they do is when your pet goes under 20% and gets low HP aggro.

The only reason they wouldn't assist in classic is if you previously charmed the mob (1 charm was sufficient aggro for them to ignore your new pet and chase you) or if you had DoT'd them once or twice.

The one way I've seen swarming sort of work is if you charm a mob and send it into one mob in a train. It'll pull one mob out of the train and start attacking it; the mob will leave the train as long as you don't have too much aggro on it from a snare or another high aggro song. If you run the train back over that mob you charmed, all the mobs on the same faction as the mob you sent your charmed pet after will then attack your charmed mob.

I'm guessing this isn't how it worked in classic?

[Daldaen]

From: "Robert Carnevali"
To: <EQSongAnalysis@home.com>
Subject: Song02
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 00:23:23 -0500

As a level 17 bard, I've gotten, and still get, great experience from Chords
of Dissonance. It is an excellent kiting song if done properly. The
technique I use can be a bit dangerous, but the experience gain is
worthwhile.

Against most mobs, using Accelerando will gradually take you out of range of
the mob. The trick is to run in a circle. Setting yourself to autorun, and
hitting the left or right key every second or so will keep you running in a
cirle, and if done properly, the mob will be within range for your songs.
Here's the sequence of songs I use: Accelerando, Chords, Bellow,
Accelerando, Bellow, Bellow, repeat. The whole time I'm doing this, I have
my lute equipped. Half of the time, the mob is under the effects of Chords,
and adding the Bellows in really stacks up the damage. Using this technique,
I can easily kite several yellow mobs simultaneously. Also, I've made a
fortune kiting 3, 4, or 5 wisps at a clip and then selling the lightstones.
I've tried to kite multiple red mobs, but it is extremely risky. If you get
too close and one red mob stuns you, having his 2 or 3 red buddies pounding
on you can be lethal. If you're stunned too long, and Accelerando wears off,
you have to hope that you don't get stunned again while you fire it up. And
if your health drops too low, the time it takes to equip that drum for the
extra speed guarantees you'll be using Lyssa's Locating Lyric to find your
corpse.

The kiting technique is especially good against slower-moving creatures like
mummies and zombies. These can be outrun without the use of Accelerando.
Your full effort can be put into twisting Chords and Bellows, and the mobs
drop pretty quickly. It's really underestimated how much damage Chords can
do with a lute when you can keep the mob under its effect for the duration
of a fight.

Confirmed, extremely classic to AOE kite. Though 70-80 mob trains, less classic. You may thank better Internet connections and UIs for that.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by zanderklocke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The one way I've seen swarming sort of work is if you charm a mob and send it into one mob in a train. It'll pull one mob out of the train and start attacking it; the mob will leave the train as long as you don't have too much aggro on it from a snare or another high aggro song. If you run the train back over that mob you charmed, all the mobs on the same faction as the mob you sent your charmed pet after will then attack your charmed mob.

I'm guessing this isn't how it worked in classic?

This may be a factor of the "3 second delay" mobs have on aggro. So when a freshly spawned mob enters the world, there is a small delay where it will not aggro anyone. This is noticeable when you turn in your pearl to Ragefire and he goes KoS.

Possibly the mobs consider a charmed mob, freshly spawned? And they won't proxy aggro it for 3 seconds. Or it's something else entirely.

But yea, it didn't require a second loop around during classic. It would immediately swap over to your mob the second your pet hit any social mob in your pack.

[Brocode]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If we had classic mechanics this would be less of an issue.

Swarm kiting would be an option and allow bards to kill in several other zones. Also for some reason PBAE DoTs from bards don't decrease in value if the mob is moving? This is impossible to prove either way since we couldn't even see DoT messages until LoY.

Speaking of, let's remove those too please. Test the Velious DoTs and then remove the messages $$$.

That was a Planes of Power update, when bards were aoeing Halls of Honour and getting insane fast XP. Later they made mobs also summon and including removed damage on aoe dots if mobs moves, since even with lower dmg people kept doing it.

I used to Bard AoE in Halls of Honour and Fungus Grove, alot, so i was following those changes at that time, even tho i have never tried to do it here.

[Daldaen]

All DoTs decrease by 33% when a mob is mobile. Fleeing/stationary mobs take full damage.

That was removed before PoP. But it was from classic until it was removed.

I'm saying bard AE songs shouldn't be special and avoid that 33% cut in efficiency when the mob is moving. AE songs not doing damage on a moving mob was something else entirely (that was LoY)