Game Mechanics: Weighted Axe and Pets

[tristantio]

Delay doesn't effect it classically as delay was removed from the pet weapon equation due to fine steel daggers and necro pets attacking for base damage too quickly.

Letting delay effect 2h weapons would be a nerf to existing 30/40 weapons that are given to low level pets.

Is the intent to be timeline classic or just arbitrary with pet weapon code based on personal opinion?

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't have too big of an issue with this, except for one thing.

When equipping weapons like this, it needs to set the delay too. And the code currently doesn't support that part. I will work on it. I have to go fix torches being equipped, and treated like weapons anyways.

H

The history of it went like this:

1st in EQ - Weapon Damage didn't affect NPC/Pets at all, however Delay did. The result of this was Necromancers giving their pets Fine Steel Daggers to greatly reduce the delay in their attacks (they continued to hit for their innate amount) and it allowed them to do more DPS

Then Verant decided to nerf this.

The final version (Kunark - Modern EQ) is what I am suggesting here. NPC/Pets should use the Weapon Damage and ignore the delay. The reverse of the above situation.

In our timeline, the Weapon Delay should NEVER impact Pet/NPC attacking, its not classic unless we are looking at 1999, Pre-Kunark stuff.

[ArumTP]

Weapon delay on pets was removed at the same time mage pets got to duel wield

[Haynar]

So basically... uber pet dmg, is wanted.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So basically... uber pet dmg, is wanted.

Its no different than feeding pets Baton's of Faith or other high DMG weapon. The only thing being asked here is that pets shield be able to wield the Weighted Axe in classic.

It does increase pet damage, yes. However with this increased DPS you have to keep your pet alive, if you are solo and your pet is doing this DPS it will out DPS you and steal 50% of your XP, you have to farm/buy Weighted Axes, etc.

[Kaosu]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So basically... uber pet dmg, is wanted.

Pretty much yeah, but the evidence does lean towards this direction.

How about this, per http://samanna.net/eq.general/pets.shtml#tulisin

6. Ratio is unimportant on weapons given to pets.
To start with, pets have a built in delay, they'll swing a 100 delay weapon and a 5 delay weapon at exactly the same speed. Damage on a weapon *can* have an effect on pet damage, however, damage on the weapon must be more than half of the pet's regular hit. Thus, if a pet hits for 50 normally, the weapon must have a damage of at least 26 (25x2 being exactly 50). So while giving a low level pet a high damage weapon will yield massive DPS increases (a level 12 pet can hit in the triple digits with a 60 damage weapon), high level pets are impossible to find damage upgrades for due to the fact that half their max hit is 50 +, and such high-damage droppable one-handers don't exist.

Ok, so thats in a few expansions past.

However

Section #5: Special notes.

There are two very special items that SoE decided pets could not use:

1. Weighted Axe, back in the day people were using this to let pets hit for massive amounts due to the high damage and the fact that pets ignore the downside (the delay). This item has a hidden "No Pets!" tag on it.

2. Di`zok Oracle Shillelagh, AKA "The Slowstick". SoE didn't like mages getting such a powerful slow. This is the only item marked with the "No Pets" tag. However, this is not the only slow proc that could be given to pets, just the only one nerfed.

There isn't very many dated timestamps for how long this actually worked for. This is my current best guess:

From alla:

Date: Feb 09 2001 at 7:43 AM
Enchanter, Necromancer, Magician, and Shadow Knight pets would use a 150 delay weapon, since the dagger "nerf" made it so weapon delay has no effect on the pet's attack speed. Don't you just love seeing your pet quadding for 91 each at 25 delay? =)

Date:May 01 2001 at 12:20 AM
Well first off im a 56 warrior on Vazaelle. I use this weapon often for opening blows. Well now i got a sash of dragonborn (i believe 50 % haste) and when my enchanter friend casts swift like the wind (75 % haste) thats 115 % haste. Which brings the ratios of this down to aroun 75 - 85. A fairly deecent delay and some beat down damage. also, its amazing seeing a friends magician pet quadding consistently for 100 damage at 25 delay.

TOP Crit.. 234 Top Crip... 512

Date: May 24 2001 at 3:26 PM

I tried giving it to my pet, it doesn't work. Sorry[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Too good to be true. Was a good thought though[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] In fact, I think this worked at one point, but not anymore.

46th SK

My best guess when this was acutally nerfed: 2 months post velious release to five months at best.

Uber pet damage indeed, but considering this was a thing in kunark and pet classes haven't been able to utilize it at all even though this was during the timeline.

[Halius]

My best guess when this was acutally nerfed: 2 months post velious release to five months at best.

Uber pet damage indeed, but considering this was a thing in kunark and pet classes haven't been able to utilize it at all even though this was during the timeline.

I'm not so sure about the when this stopped working. I found this post here from 2004 from elitegamerslounge saying they were able to equip a weighted axe and get 103 hits.

Katrasle_TZ

Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 11:00 am
Posts: 15
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I decided to play with weapons and pets a little while ago. Gave a weighted ax to my lvl 56 monk pet (axes sell for about 20pp each on my server), pet was hitting for 103, the 150 delay doesnt effect pets.

Sun Apr 18, 2004 11:56 pm

There there is also this, from 2007 on the necrotalk forums.

encephalitis
12-18-2007, 08:21 PM
You cant give pets no drops so had to have been the regular one. Even on FV where nothing is no drop pets still follow normal rules and cant wield No Drop weapons. There are still a number of 40+ damage weapons that will work which are nice. I usually use big 2 handers up until lvl 34 pets and have done so on every mage/necro/BL I have played. Even if pet can dual wield it doesnt mean he should. Also for a laugh anyone tried a full set of 450 HP dwerium gear lol. That would be 3600 HPs from those 8 pieces not counting prime belt :P

Best bet for pet weapon is a Weighted Axe (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=11543) from the giant fort in Frontier Mountains.

45 base dmg plus 196 damage bonus is pure own at lower levels. Nice if it had HP. No biggie though. As mentioned in another thread, an easy way to level shrouds (if you so desire) is to kill in Upper Guk to get the brazier that has a charge of Summon Fire Elemental pet, shroud to level 10 or so, get a Forgotten Halls instance, click the brazier to make pet, give pet pet armor and that spiffy Weighted Axe and then just go to town on the bats.

The pet will mow them down.

Lots of people prefer proccing pet twink weapons. I just like weighted axe because I can get it in like 5 min at the giant fort, and can collect multiples to have one on hand in the bank.

Anyhow, works the same for regular pet as for this clicky-item pet. Give him armor, give him axe, and get the eff outta the way.

So I think it's safe to say that IT was possible to do, just a matter of when it stopped. Either way, it clearly should be in the timeline now. So Bump for awareness.

[Baler]

Accurate Classic is wanted.

If this is accurate to the classic experience of kunark. (soon velious) it should be required for p99 to add it in the classic manner it was at that time period. Perhaps more sufficient evidence is needed to put the nail in the coffin.

P99 isn't about fixing the classic experience, It's about reproducing it. At least that is what I thought.

[Grimjaw]

so the only 2 hand weapon that was bugged and allowed pets to dual wield them was scythes?

[blondeattk]

Originally Posted by Grimjaw [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so the only 2 hand weapon that was bugged and allowed pets to dual wield them was scythes?

no. they were just cheap.