CLARIFICATION FROM SIRKEN

[heartbrand]

Originally Posted by Elderan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

jesus,

They said guilds could agree to make their own agreement and ignore these rules.

I call for Red Dawn, Fair Fighters, Azrael, Nihilum to all agree to our own custom agreement which does not allow LNS. All other rules would remain the same.

Problem solved.

No.

[heartbrand]

For those who watch Survivor, Elderan is basically asking us to give up the immunity necklace for nothing in return. LNS is a great rule, and has already made the server more enjoyable. Could it potentially use some tweaking? Sure. But that doesn't mean it needs to be removed. And, the more I think about it, the more I like the concept that if you die you're out of the battle, and Nihilum will also long term in Velious. Otherwise, you get 15 hour + PVP battles of a few stragglers chain wiping you with no chance of actually winning the mob. This rule prevents that retarded situation that makes the server unplayable. Imagine if this had been in back when FF had won the Nagafen fight and now won the right to battle Nagafen? Who knows what would have happened. What happened instead was a few sore losers sticking around till 3am in the morning to try to chain wipe the pvp victors until their morale was destroyed. That isn't fun, and I'm glad the GMs recognize it.

[Buhbuh]

Yeah, the 1 hour rule is amazing for raid battles.

[mcappy]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For those who watch Survivor, Elderan is basically asking us to give up the immunity necklace for nothing in return. LNS is a great rule, and has already made the server more enjoyable. Could it potentially use some tweaking? Sure. But that doesn't mean it needs to be removed. And, the more I think about it, the more I like the concept that if you die you're out of the battle, and Nihilum will also long term in Velious. Otherwise, you get 15 hour + PVP battles of a few stragglers chain wiping you with no chance of actually winning the mob. This rule prevents that retarded situation that makes the server unplayable. Imagine if this had been in back when FF had won the Nagafen fight and now won the right to battle Nagafen? Who knows what would have happened. What happened instead was a few sore losers sticking around till 3am in the morning to try to chain wipe the pvp victors until their morale was destroyed. That isn't fun, and I'm glad the GMs recognize it.

Can't disagree with the policy being used to that effect, but the GMs really, really want to ban people, even for minor and/or accidental "corpse camping" (see: Andis).

Let's be honest - the situation in Fear (and earlier OT) between Nihilum and RD was what prompted these rules to go into place. Nobody else was complaining about being corpse camped because it wasn't a problem for anyone else.

I just think the way the LNS rule is being enforced is unnecessarily complicated. Everyone damn well knows when they're being corpse camped, and everyone damn well knows when they're camping corpse(s). We get massive YTs when a guild wipes another in a big fight, nobody is fooled by Dongshow saying 'he went berserk' in ooc when the YTs keep streaming in once every couple minutes. Making these complicated rules just scares people away from PvPing for fear of violating some undocumented clause of the PnP code.

[heartbrand]

Originally Posted by mcappy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can't disagree with the policy being used to that effect, but the GMs really, really want to ban people, even for minor and/or accidental "corpse camping" (see: Andis).

Let's be honest - the situation in Fear (and earlier OT) between Nihilum and RD was what prompted these rules to go into place. Nobody else was complaining about being corpse camped because it wasn't a problem for anyone else.

I just think the way the LNS rule is being enforced is unnecessarily complicated. Everyone damn well knows when they're being corpse camped, and everyone damn well knows when they're camping corpse(s). We get massive YTs when a guild wipes another in a big fight, nobody is fooled by Dongshow saying 'he went berserk' in ooc when the YTs keep streaming in once every couple minutes. Making these complicated rules just scares people away from PvPing for fear of violating some undocumented clause of the PnP code.

Those examples may have gotten the most ForumQuest attention, but as leader of a guild of many new players, I received countless tells from people who informed me they would be quitting the server because they died to people like Ebtcard and he corpse camped them, or a FoH member, or some random twink in Unrest, who would sit on their corpse. Those people, since they don't ForumQuest and make a big noice in OOC, seem invisible, but believe me, they made up a huge number.

[Buhbuh]

It's pretty well known that compromising some "red" elements of a game and becoming more casual friendly greatly increases the likability of the game for them/ the retention of those players.

Let's be honest: most of us posting here will always play. Gotta make it appealing to the little guys. One bad experience and they could be gone. Let's not forget how many other games are out there the non no lifers could be playing. You gotta make it somewhat enjoyable for people.

[heartbrand]

Originally Posted by Buhbuh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's pretty well known that compromising some "red" elements of a game and becoming more casual friendly greatly increases the likability of the game for them/ the retention of those players.

Let's be honest: most of us posting here will always play. Gotta make it appealing to the little guys. One bad experience and they could be gone. Let's not forget how many other games are out there the non no lifers could be playing. You gotta make it somewhat enjoyable for people.

Yup.

[mcappy]

Originally Posted by Buhbuh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's pretty well known that compromising some "red" elements of a game and becoming more casual friendly greatly increases the likability of the game for them/ the retention of those players.

Let's be honest: most of us posting here will always play. Gotta make it appealing to the little guys. One bad experience and they could be gone. Let's not forget how many other games are out there the non no lifers could be playing. You gotta make it somewhat enjoyable for people.

I'm not disagreeing that some form of PNP is a good thing - I came from SZ, so I might be used to it, but based on the teams server feedback I understand that's not the atmosphere they want to promote here, and for good reason. I was never the type to corpse camp or pm racial slurs when I get killed, so it's not going to make my time here any worse. I'm more worried about not having a fraps to back myself up when someone else accuses me of something I didn't do. Not that I'm all that active in pvp - soloing in Bumfuck, Nowhere for 46 levels leaves you a bit light on the pvp.

I mainly have issues with the 'gray area' cases (see Andis' post above) being enforced so heavily, especially this soon after the new PNP was introduced. If you're going to maintain that there are undefinable cases, or too many to pre-define (see some of the hypotheticals being thrown around in this and other threads), they should be giving some leeway in those gray areas until people are used to the rules. Save the making of examples for cut-and-dry cases.

[runlvlzero]

I like the new rules, should be good improvement 2 the server, while i don't think ive ever had a petition answered 100% in my favor, i think the GMs are really fair and unbiased tbh

[Nirgon]

If I get killed by pve can I still train mobs with a gate pot as a monk