Critical Suggestions for Raid Rules

[Troy]

I'm all for a change for one reason: I have a job where I actually work, can't play EQ, and I can't call in sick or show up late or leave early because Inny is up.

If that means that I can NEVER EVER see any raid content, then something is VERY WRONG with the rules. End of story.

Having ~15 hours a day available to potentially be online should be more than enough to do everything. 24 hours should not be a requirement, it does not make sense in any universe.

[whitebandit]

If you want to kill dragons everyday without having to invest any time or effort, PEQ. You can be level 75 in like an hour.. Im sure you could just go Solo a dragon or something if you wanted to.

[astarothel]

There are many preconditions that have to be made before any sort of revision to the raiding ruleset can be made.

The first and most important is that all parties believe that it has to and should change.

After this there are a number of secondary preconditions that will need to be agreed upon

Examples include:
-that the raiding ruleset adopted should remain competitive
-that the raiding ruleset adopted should contain some reward for effort, efficiency, and dedication, including time invested
-that the raiding ruleset adopted must require at most the current amount of time GMs currently invest toward policing the current ruleset in place.

From this groundwork you can move on to discussing aspects of possible rulesets.

Examples include:
-keeping variance, a change of variance values and mechanics, or no variance at all
-what types of rule sets will discourage the negative behaviour (in this case, long duration camping) and prevent it from reoccurring
-the pros and cons of each of various rulesets, and their relation to the secondary preconditions
-timers (to engage, to kill, resets for interference or bugged encounters)
-flat number of attempts on a target, or a flat time period
-if the ruleset consists of internal penalties for behaviour against the server rules, in addition to the external penalties levied by the GMs

Of course, it's all irrelevant if groups opt against acceptance of primary and secondary preconditions for the agreement, or against legitimate discussion and grounds for compromise over the aspects for a possible solution.

[Sydarm]

"Right after you explain to me how leaving your character AFK for days in a zone is a strict correlation to time and effort invested." -Bones

Go sit in perma where it crashes all the time and mysterious giant trains wipe you, with 5 minute resurrection cast due to zone-wide lag. How about afking in solb where people train you several times a day, and often times worse, both unintentionally and intentionally? We have to work, sleep, eat, and do the same stuff everybody else does on top of this game. There's a lot more than just leaving a computer on.

If it is so easy to just afk your toon in a zone may I ask why you don't simply do it? This is the system that is in place guys.

For da/ib to get on board with a change, it must benefit them. I am not saying that it should be as lopsided of a benefit as it currently is: but if we are to simply relinquish our current situation and divide everything up into equal slices of the pie due to the boistrous complaints of the unenthusiastic casual players, I consider that garbage.

[Troy]

Originally Posted by Sydarm [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

complaints of the unenthusiastic casual players

I suggest you rethink your definition of casual. Not having 24-hour access to EQ != casual. It probably indicates that one is not clinically insane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Bones]

Originally Posted by Sydarm [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If it is so easy to just afk your toon in a zone may I ask why you don't simply do it? This is the system that is in place guys.

I'll let supreme take this one.

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Some of us are simply in agreement that it is lame and sad that there is so much greediness that nothing else is acceptable but poopsocking.There is enough of us..we simply do not believe poopsocking is in the spirit of Everquest Raiding.

It is not hard to sit AFK around the clock waiting for a text message. I don't because it is fucking stupid.

None of this matters because you are just trying to draw attention from the blatant truth. You can't handle legitimate competition. If you weren't afraid of a better, faster, and more organized guild taking targets from under your nose, you wouldn't have people sitting AFK for days to guarantee first shot.

[Supreme]

Ok for all the people that keep saying "If you want to kill dragons everyday without having to invest any time or effort or "You dont want to put in the effort to camp dragons/gods you want things handed to you" please exit the thread.

It takes NO SKILL to stay logged in and permacamp. Some of us are simply in agreement that it is lame and sad that there is so much greediness that nothing else is acceptable but poopsocking. The more you attempt to call us out and try to get us to do it the closer you come to only ever seeing 1 spawn (the current one you are on) again. There is enough of us..we simply do not believe poopsocking is in the spirit of Everquest Raiding.

Tommorrow i am going to post a rotation system that will offer the "racing, FTE, campers and rotation" a idea.

[Sydarm]

"Ok for all the people that keep saying "If you want to kill dragons everyday without having to invest any time or effort or "You dont want to put in the effort to camp dragons/gods you want things handed to you" please exit the thread." --okay now that I know you are addressing me in particular

Equal distribution to each and every guild that holds up their hand asking for dragon loot when they are all of exceedingly unequal makeup and desire cannot be considered a legitimate system of fairness.

If you want a casual game where you can just waltz on over to a raidzone with a couple friends, kill everything, and obtain the best loot in the game...I would suggest YOU go somewhere else.

[Supreme]

Originally Posted by Sydarm [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Ok for all the people that keep saying "If you want to kill dragons everyday without having to invest any time or effort or "You dont want to put in the effort to camp dragons/gods you want things handed to you" please exit the thread." --okay now that I know you are addressing me in particular

Equal distribution to each and every guild that holds up their hand asking for dragon loot when they are all of exceedingly unequal makeup and desire cannot be considered a legitimate system of fairness.

If you want a casual game where you can just waltz on over to a raidzone with a couple friends, kill everything, and obtain the best loot in the game...I would suggest YOU go somewhere else.

Here let me add this gem then. Any system i propose will not include Transcendence as part of that rotation. To put it bluntly even a rotation system is not something we are interested in right now. We are content farming planes for armor (or trash).

But....

Bringing together everyone and allowing myself to be a unbiased arbitrator for a balanced rotation system that appeals to the "camping,FTE,rotation and racing" player base is something i feel will bring the raiding to a enjoyable standard.

And lets be honest here. Who in the current raid scene is really "unbalanced"? Because IB was the FIRST to kill Dragons/Gods that gives them the privledge of making rules only for themselves? Or because DA no-skill poopsocks content that it somehow elevates them as superior to Divinity, WI or Remedy?

Please do not be so naive.

I am even pretty sure that my "rag-tag" bunch of Transcendence could take down every bit of the content that is on p1999.

So please do not come here to be elitist. Offer your suggestions for Raid Rules or take the stairs.

[Skope]

Sydarm, let's be clear: Nobody is asking for a straight rotation where we all hold hands and sing songs of how wonderful dragon/god loot is. What we want is a system that actually rewards people who put in more time and effort to their raiding, not the guilds that sit in a zone and claim 'this is mine' while going off and afking for 3-4 days at a time. The current situation is the total antithesis to what you, and many, seem to be looking for.