Premiums Unveiled For Health Overhaul Plans

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, you can't really just look at the small subset of age brackets when discussing health costs per year. Of course younger people are on average going to spend far less than the elderly. Part of the way that insurance is set up is so that the unused Premiums of people such as yourself are used to cover the woman with breast cancer. You are not paying ONLY for directly what you will benefit from, that's not how insurance works. That's what savings accounts are for.

Actually, that's exactly how insurance works in every other type of insurance. And it's how insurance would work with health insurance if not for regulations. Older folks get to pay far less on car insurance because they are less likely to have an accident. Older folks also have to pay a lot more on life insurance because it's more likely that they will die. For any insurance, any one person needs to pay exactly what their risk is at that point in time. Our health insurance is structured the way it is because old folks voted in people who told them that they'd force young people to subsidize their health care.

[runlvlzero]

It doesnt actually cost 500$ a month to take care of a person with type 1 diabetes. Thats what I'm trying to say.

When you set up a program like obamacare, or a real social civil program payed for by everyone its done more cheaply.

$$$ are completely arbitrary. The reason it costs 500$ to do it now is because of economic reasons. Not actual energy required to produce it.

Obamacare is not looking at the actual economic issues around the cost of health care.

All that being said I don't want to take this away from people either.

[runlvlzero]

No but do you seriously have something against public transportation?

Why can't we do that. Insulin is not a luxury really IMO. Were not talking about handing out Lamborghinis.

If Canada can do something like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Needle_exchange_programme

Simply to decrease the spread of aids between drug users. Seriously diabetes is a NO BRAINER.

And I'm a fairly Libertarian individual, our federal government is way to big and out of control. But I don't believe in saying "fuck everyone me me me me me".

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by runlvlzero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No but do you seriously have something against public transportation?

In some cases, no. In many others, absolutely there's a problem. I live in Houston with the disastrous light rail system. There's also that little albatross called Amtrak.

You're right, Insulin is not a luxury. It's a necessity. Type 1 diabetics require it to live. Just like most people require food and shelter to live. Are you telling me that both of those should be provided to those who are otherwise capable of supporting themselves?

[runlvlzero]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In some cases, no. In many others, absolutely there's a problem. I live in Houston with the disastrous light rail system. There's also that little albatross called Amtrak.

You're right, Insulin is not a luxury. It's a necessity. Type 1 diabetics require it to live. Just like most people require food and shelter to live. Are you telling me that both of those should be provided to those who are otherwise capable of supporting themselves?

It should be provided to people who work and put in if they choose to participate in something that benefits everyone. Those people with type 1 diabetes working are you know. Part of your National Tribe.

Right now we have a problem where a lot of capable people who would otherwise be able to participate in society because of greed and corruption, can not. So I'm in favor of more socialism at this point.

Especially as technology advances further down the roads of automation.

Do we need a lot of conservative reform? Ooooh yeah... but should we say "fuck it theres 2 many people on the planet cause someone says so?"

Nah. We don't need to endlessly cut short all our social welfare overnight without providing people a chance to not need it first.

I'm very on the fence about welfare. I hate how people can abuse it.

But I also hate how the lower classes are made to pay the most for it because some how the most wealthy are above it all etc...

I am constantly looking towards a revised compromise between our dynastic capitalists and Marxism. Because both can be pretty fucking terrible when taken to extremes.

Even the most libertarian societies have social welfare... see Sweden.

And yeah, if I have the means to. I am looking to enrich everyones lives. Better if those means exist in everyones individual control (liberty u know). But not always workable OR the most efficient.

I mean I keep seeing the argument that people must work to live. God for bid we did start being able to feed and care for people without forcing them to work... holy shit what a concept. Its quite possible. Either now or in the near future.

Do people need to work to maintain a high standard of living? Pretty much currently yeah.

Do we need to work hard to live? Nope. Hunter gatherers didn't expend much energy at all. And I have visited places where the 1st world is not all encompassing. Plenty of people still out there working very little to subsist.

Last little thing here....

Is COOPERATION more productive? Generally it is? Damn coorpoeration. Like U know, getting in a group to hold a camp vs trying to do it yourself vs a a group. Makes a difference. Translates perfectly well to real life.

Its pretty much how we got where we are today. Despite the illusion that its everyone for themselves. Even the rich stand on the back of cooperation. They would have nothing with complete anarchy.

I will add that having a productive and creative occupation is very good for peoples sanity, psychology, well-being, and happiness. So I think the more opportunities we can provide people to work the better.

[runlvlzero]

Maybe, and your right. Certainly not for everything. And it also eliminates choice and competition. A big downfall of socialism. On the upside if people don't have to work for necessities they can still focus on creating luxuries (Gourmet Pizza instead of soylent geen...). Making new markets. And potentially new currency. (Bitcion is something almost in this realm, though its really just yet another fiat).

I think it could work for some specific situations though.

And I do think prices/costs are artificially or meaninglessly high. This is however just an opinion I can't thoroughly back up with data for the sake of this debate.

I know there are a lot of alternative fuel sources we don't use because our economy and regulations are not fit for them. Pretty well studied.

Those ideas go back to my criticism of Obamacare.

[MrSparkle001]

Originally Posted by runlvlzero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And I do think prices/costs are artificially or meaninglessly high. This is however just an opinion I can't thoroughly back up with data for the sake of this debate.

Way too high. In August I got a small cut from my cat on my inside pinkie right below the first knuckle. It wasn't large but it was sort of deep and bled like a stuck pig at first so I thought maybe it might need a stitch (notice it's singular stitch. The cut was small). It was late on a Saturday so my option was the emergency room. I figured it was no big deal. I put pressure on it, bleeding stopped, I cleaned it up, put some neosporin and a bandaid on it and head out.

They examined it and said it didn't require a stitch. They cleaned it up themselves, put some bacitracin on it, wrapped it in gauze, gave me an antibiotic pill and a prescription for more. That's it.

The hospital bill came to over $1100, not including the doctor's bill. When I voiced my great displeasure at that insane rip-off we settled on $125 for the entire hospital bill. Two weeks later I got a doctor's bill for $400, and a week after that another hospital bill for over $350, after I already agreed to a payment in full. That's over $1850 for a small cut that they put bacitracin and gauze on, which I already did at home for free for fuck's sake. All I wanted to know was if it needed a stitch! I already had neosporin and a bandaid on it, they just replaced it with bacitracin and gauze.

Are they insane? Where the hell does the doctor get off charging me $400 to put bacitracin and gauze on a cut that's maybe a half inch in size, if that (it was smaller than the width of my pinkie nail). Fuck I'm in the wrong business. I'll do that for $200, that's half price! It's a steal! And the hospital charging me almost $1500?? What that really is is what they'd have charged my insurance. That's what insurance would have paid. They would have paid about $1850 for a small cut I could have easily taken care of myself.

These hospitals and doctors are overcharging extreme amounts. It's damned criminal.

The prescription cost me $30. That's reasonable. I have no problem paying reasonable bills, but this doctor will not see a dime of that $400 she's charging me unless she agrees to knock that bill down to under $100.

What sucks is a month before I got ripped off my brother went to the same hospital after a collision playing softball (cut his nose and got banged up). He didn't raise hell over what they were charging him and instead agreed to a payment plan. He has to pay over $2500 for services that were only slightly more involved than mine, and only because they did concussion tests (edit: found out today it's $5200 he owes, not $2500). Holy shit. I didn't know he had to pay that much or I would have never gone myself; I guess I should talk to my brother more often.

[Millburn]

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[Misto]

Being a doctor is going to suck.

You can multiply the number of crackheads trying to scam pain medication from their doctors by 10.

This country is so fucked.