Discussion on R99 vs VZTZ **POSTPONED**

[mostbitter]

boxing did make it a LOT more fun. Boxing is fairly rampant here as it is, might as well not punish the people who are willing to play by the rules and allow it.

[runlvlzero]

I agree. I don't box because I'm honorable as fucking hell. But I know MANY who do. Nothing implied here. They aren't even forumquesters. If I could box I would have more fun maybe. At least I would invite much more dps into my lil melee/cleric duo (and no not with Miria) I would roll a new cleric.

No I will not rat them out as that would also be dishonorable. It is not my duty to stop people from boxing when I am fairly indifferent to the rule. I am most certainly not lawful (even if I follow the rules myself). Therefore its perfectly honorable for me to not get them in trouble.

There is no law here anyway... I am not interested in cheating/exploiting. I don't feel like boxing is cheating or exploiting. Just a dumb ideology enforced loosely like in the USA how you can be arrested and jailed for ALMOST ANYTHING.

[Cid]

I have a sincere question.

Why does everyone bring up Nihilum's advantage in gear and control as the major negative of the server?

Almost every single other person either bailed on the server or got banned. I ran across continents and didn't see anyone. There are far more voices bitching about this being the main detractor of the server than there were playing prior to Kunark.
The advantages Nihilum has because they spent all that time raiding is also likely the only reason the Red server still exists.

Are you truly and honestly mad at Nihilum because they are ruining what you think a pvp server should be, or because of what they have done to you ingame? I've gotten to see how deep down the animosity against Nihilum goes.

They can be beaten. It's not a matter of leadership or whatever else, it's a lack of experience and cohesion with one another. If you have 12 people who know and like each other and have months/years worth of experience playing together, you can accomplish an incredible amount in EQ.
Along with 5 friends I made a guild on the Live servers and we took casual players with little or no raid experience and after a few months, often frustrating months, they became a well-oiled machine and accomplished more than I expected.

It takes months to work like that, and if you aren't prepared to wait that long I hear there's a WoW emu that will give you instant gratification. Everytime you guys start to get better as a unit, I log in and there's been some catastrophic event and either there's a mass exodus or the whole guild is gone and there are 2-3 new guilds.

There are a ton of new players. I know this better than anyone. Stop killing them and start training them to fight. If some people spent half the effort improving the guild that they do trying to show off their e-dicks in ooc, everyone would be the better for it. Find your core of loyal, determined and dedicated players and build around them.

I constantly go out of my way to help everyone I can, almost always at my own expense. I've PLed people I'd never met, I've given out tens of thousands in pp and gear to new players because a little help and encouragement goes a long way when that person wonder if it's worth it to keep playing. I can't help them all, or remember them all, but I doing more than my share to benefit the server.

You may dislike my method of operation, you may irrationally hate me because I am friends with Northwest and always will be, and you may even detest me because I play a halfling and midgets are low to the ground and therefore closer to Satan, but it's ok, I'll get over it.


I play on a damn dial-up connection (Who's classic now, huh?) and I have done whatever I could to improve the server without it benefitting me in any way. What the fuck have you done that wasn't in your own interests?

[runlvlzero]

I love me some good fiction.

[Handpartytowel]

just replace r99 with vztz entirely since it was better and more fun in every way.

[Kevynne]

Originally Posted by Handpartytowel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

just replace r99 with vztz entirely since it was better and more fun in every way.

[Colgate]

yes

[Motec]

I'd like to give an outsider, blue player perspective.

I love world PVP. I enjoy EQ PVP a lot. Lets make that clear right now.

Red 99, is full of absolute scum of the EQ community.
Before the server can get better, attitudes existing must change.

Who would want to play there, when every single thread, of every single section in their message board is filled with gifs, 9000 kill shot screenshots, random "u mad" versions of gifs, and what manner of other weird shit.

The first impression is purely of spiteful, arrogant cunts who exist there. And I know the server isn't 100% these people, but 100% of the initial impression is that it is. Why would I want to play somewhere that has a community who have absolute zero interest except for the largest possible consequence for their actions.

If you kill someone on red99, not only is YT not enough, but you need to spam the screenshot button 25x, post it on the forums, with screenshots of all the arse slapping in the changerooms, and revert to "UMAD" as only further discourse. Out of this daily occurance, half of them then continue to explain about the bind camping.

Cheating, zone line pvp, boxing, gayt pots, /anon/role all add up to a sub par pvp experience. The only people who benefit are those who actively grief others. Pvp server is not about griefing people, it's about picking a fight to take some territory, and the loser having a little candour about it. But on red99, no respect exists amongst the people who play.

Red99 no longer appeals to me (having played some friends chars there) based solely on the fact that PVP is avoided by all but griefers, because if you do want some honest fighting you end up spammed on a board, bind camped, and shit talked. Why would I want a fight, if thats not how I want to play. I dare say the vast majority of 'contenders' for playing red99 who don't currently or anymore also share this animosity towards the dickheads who exist solely for attention.

Now Red99 is obviously going to favour the hardcore in its current ruleset and GM involvement, so you always are going to attract the dick measurers, forumquesters, neckbeards and PVE statjockeys. So the next step is to change the ruleset and environment.

After an attitude change at the very core of how the server interacts with each other, the environment in which they interact needs to suit. What is wrong with the environment?

Well for a start the game is played solo by all, because they go out of their way to avoid said pvp. So remove the ability to be anon/role completely. Going anon only solves one single purpose in EQ and that is to raid PVE in relative secrecy of location. Why encourage secret PVE when instead instead you should be encouraging interdependency, communication and a forewarning of griefing.

People play solo because they cant who all X and have a chat, get groups happening.
People play solo because they cant keep an eye on where people are. Your 'friends' list (cunts who want to grief you) is useless as you dont know where they are.
People play solo because you have an equal chance of being PK'd on interaction as you do of grouping, because the only people left on red are the aformentioned fuckwits and PVE'ers, or PVE alts.

The environment is punishing on red of those who want to level, group, develop friendships, guilds and a have fair fights. Why should the environment be punishing as the basis for all interaction, its a PVP server. The player and his interactions with other players should be punishing based on a choice made. Right now that choice is made for you by the attitudes of the players here and the rules in place that allow griefing to thrive above all else.

The rules in place at the moment favour a better geared gank, than a game of cat and mouse to slug it out when you can track others across zones on /who. It removes a lot of the thinking involved in staying alive which is just as important as the fight itself. Existing and thriving on on a PVP server should involve a lot more to winning (or not dieing) than runspeed, zonelines, clickies. It should be intellectual, requiring strategy and thought before you even have to fight. Being able to see who you can go after, and vice versa enhances gameplay and introduces interdependency in the community.

The fixes I think you'll see proposed will revolve around removing power from a guild of players who PVE. Fuck that. They earned their spot at the top because they played the most and had the aspiration. The fact they just turned into TMOred is only because they also absorbed every retard with a dialup and pentium II or better to play.

I read with great interest, and played around on red at the beginning with all of the fun drama some of the notable names and the shit that went on. Then it...didnt stop. Every day another circle jerk UMAD post, 4000 kittens through the boards, the absolute most mundane shit talk possible. PVP evolved through the vocality of a minority into the actions of a majority. Soon everyone was being a fucking douche, in the space of a few weeks I went from enjoying the server to bailing simply because the foul attitudes streamed down. Those without humility and respect spread like a virus. This forced people to drop all morals and cheat like motherfuckers, again just destroying the integrity of the server. More than once I hung around people who instasuccored to zone line etc. What the fuck is the point of playing a high risk game like eq, when PVE death is trivialised by cheating and PVP death is punished by ridicule.

Dont know how it's like now without the anti cheat code. But from browsing the forums daily it certainly looks like nothing has changed, and a FUCKLOAD of people have bailed on the project. Infact, P99red is a complete failure.

TOOPS sleeper SERVER HAS MORE ACTIVE PLAYERS. Thats how bad red99 is.

I would play on a red99 that had a few key changes.

Attitudes:
1. Remove all pictures from signatures on forums and any gifs and avatars from appearing in the pvp section of forum.
2. Make forum based infractions affect login server, and vice versa. Clean up this mess.
3. Encourage interdependency and affiliations. and I'd like to hear the communities thoughts.

Environment:
4. Basic ruleset change to teams. The far more experienced pvp guys from sz will likely provide a synopsis of advantages and how to best divide for gameplay benefit.
5. Remove anon and roleplay. Encourage community and intellectual, alert play.
6. Allow training in solusek b, perma, sebilis, VP...basically anywhere there is a raid zone. Fuck PVE'ers, batphones etc. Train the living shit out of eachother.
7. Group XP bonuses. double them.

General changes:
8. I like the idea of a soft re-launch, but only if you implimented the kunark launch era 'classic trivial loot code' and had those items dropping off level appropriate NPC's under level 50, to bring people back to the game.
9. XP bonus...more. If XP is lost on death still, up the rate. Or griefers win not only at being cunts, but by driving people off the server.
10. Introduce rez xp gain from pvp deaths. Same reasoning as above. Let the server environment support the less than neckbeard 12hr a day players. why would someone who plays 4 hours a day want to play here when they lose 3 hours of it in two PK's at 10 at night?

But my most prudent point is about server staff interaction. Have some GM events ffs.


I could go on a fair while, but I think it's important to note that the vocal minority helped completely fuck this server, and the vocal minority destroyed the attitude on it from before it was even launched on the forums.

The vocal minority are made up of your playerbase of 30-50 active P99 red players. So how about you tell them to fuck off and listen to the advice and ideas of those who WANT to play there and wont because its filled with fuckwits, and has a ruleset and governance that promotes PVE as a means to PVP end, not the other way around.

A lot of guys a lot more pvp experienced than me can probably comment on some item restrictions or removals that also should exist as a means to encourage the newer/lower serverpops.

[Kevynne]

Originally Posted by Motec [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Environment:
4. Basic ruleset change to teams. The far more experienced pvp guys from sz will likely provide a synopsis of advantages and how to best divide for gameplay benefit.
5. Remove anon and roleplay. Encourage community and intellectual, alert play.
6. Allow training in solusek b, perma, sebilis, VP...basically anywhere there is a raid zone. Fuck PVE'ers, batphones etc. Train the living shit out of eachother.
7. Group XP bonuses. double them.

General changes:
8. I like the idea of a soft re-launch, but only if you implimented the kunark launch era 'classic trivial loot code' and had those items dropping off level appropriate NPC's under level 50, to bring people back to the game.
9. XP bonus...more. If XP is lost on death still, up the rate. Or griefers win not only at being cunts, but by driving people off the server.
10. Introduce rez xp gain from pvp deaths. Same reasoning as above. Let the server environment support the less than neckbeard 12hr a day players. why would someone who plays 4 hours a day want to play here when they lose 3 hours of it in two PK's at 10 at night?

But my most prudent point is about server staff interaction. Have some GM events ffs.

[Motec]

Also boxing could be a cool option. Can someone explain what the negatives are?