Why were we so bad during live?

[pasi]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You do not gear out tanks and dps in Velious stuff in 24 hours. Avatar is pretty much the end all be all for increasing raid DPS in Velious and that shit takes a LONG time to equip. 5500HP? Good luck I guess, you better bring about 250 players to zerg rez the fuck out of him.

5500 plus Divine Strength, Focus of Spirit over Talisman, and POTG over NS/Heroism.
Avatar is nice and all, but the gain in DPS isn't something that having 100-150 players couldn't take care of.

[webrunner5]

"I remember the mobs would eat people that pissed it off WAY more easily than they do here. That's part of what made those fights so difficult is that you'd have to spend a bit of time for the tank to build aggro, and when it came time to switch you had all the DPS getting eaten alive while the next warrior was being transitioned."

Pretty much the way I remember it happening.

[t0lkien]

I remember even Vindi being a right of passage for guilds, and was no pushover. AoW required months of killing dragons to gear up for and have any chance at all. I think people are under-estimating Velious content.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You do not gear out tanks and dps in Velious stuff in 24 hours. Avatar is pretty much the end all be all for increasing raid DPS in Velious and that shit takes a LONG time to equip. 5500HP? Good luck I guess, you better bring about 250 players to zerg rez the fuck out of him.

When Eabon led his raids in Plane of Sky I think everyone saw how much of a beast Bzzt was trying to CH chain. Making it through that fight with him tanking and living was a crapshoot. The bee only quadded and he even hits for LESS and DOES NOT FLURRY like AoW -- AoW has 30x more HP than that bee too.

I hope Nilbog is there when this guy decimates everyone for an hour or however long his depop timer is so he can laugh at all of you :P

Heartbrand posted a log of the bee hitting 13 times in one second here. If the Avatar of war gets 3 attack rounds of 8 attacks per second, then yes he might be trouble. If he has a 'normal' three second cooldown, he won't be a problem at all.

Let's say for a moment that our defensive warrior has 5500HP + 300 in additional Velious buffs for 5800. 8 attacks at 700 each is only 5600, but with two kicks he might be one rounded. Lets then say that the Avatar of War hits 80% of the time and hits for max damage 80% of the time, and our warrior will parry/block/guard etc 12% of the time. The chance of him getting in 8 max hits is: [0.8*0.8*0.88]^8 = .56^8 = 0.01, or 1%. So our warrior can on average tank 100 rounds or 300 seconds which is actually longer than defensive discipline. And 80% hit/80% max damage is EXTREMELY conservative. I checked Sakuragi's logs and when evasive the Spiroc Lord hits him 30% of the time, and 30% of those hits are for max damage. And this is an Iksar Warrior with 1000AC unbuffed. If we knock the Avatar of War down to 50% max hits, the math becomes [0.8*0.5*0.88]^8 = .02%.

Not to mention the fact that TMO will have 5-10 such tanks and if a few die due to bad luck or confusion they'll still have 5 left [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] The simple reality is that zerg wins EQ. If the encounter was limited to 50 players, you might be right. With 150? he dies.

[Nyrod]

going to get involed in this conversation because its making me wet.

i went through all my old SS from when Velious was open on VZTZ and although this isnt VZTZ i think in some ways it is the closest reflection to how it will look on an EMU considering all the arguments in this thread, specifically population and knowledge.

at the time of these SS, no one was NToV geared, most were only half geared with Thurgadin armor and many were still sporting kunark gear, not including VP.

not conclusive evidence but i highly doubt that AoW will not be downed on day 1. we did 3 attempts, got him to 92% 90% and then 82%. we didnt expect to win, we just wanted to attempt it with who we had online at the time. Heresy also made an attempt, dont know how that went except that they wiped. i cant remember, but i also think i remember someone saying that he wasnt doing flurries? so he may have been broken which would mean he will be far nastier than these few attempts. anyhow, hope this gets you excited.

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and here is a werewolf fucking a bear

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[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You do not gear out tanks and dps in Velious stuff in 24 hours. Avatar is pretty much the end all be all for increasing raid DPS in Velious and that shit takes a LONG time to equip. 5500HP? Good luck I guess, you better bring about 250 players to zerg rez the fuck out of him.

When Eabon led his raids in Plane of Sky I think everyone saw how much of a beast Bzzt was trying to CH chain. Making it through that fight with him tanking and living was a crapshoot. The bee only quadded and he even hits for LESS and DOES NOT FLURRY like AoW -- AoW has 30x more HP than that bee too.

I hope Nilbog is there when this guy decimates everyone for an hour or however long his depop timer is so he can laugh at all of you :P

Avatar ain't shit compared to throwing an extra 30 toons at it. I have no idea how solid the TMO cleric team is, but if they are experienced at a ch chain, I don't see how AoW doesn't die. Velious gear is nice and all, but it's not required if you have a zerg with you.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Gwence [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

no one used midnight mallets on live because they never pulled anywhere near as much agro on live as they do here.

aow hardest boss until elemental planes PoP 2 expansions later, no other fight exists where a raid that performs flawlessly can still fail to win, except AoW.

its the 2nd hardest boss relative to era the game has ever seen, that's why it took so long for people to kill it.

I think the margin for error on AoW is actually higher than on many other fights in later expansions. It just took so long at the time due to the relative noobishness of raiding guilds at the time. A solid AoW strat will take into account the chance of warrior 1-rounding and other risks. Take a guild that had to beat things like OMM and put them into velious toons and AoW would seem like just another trivial boss.

[Gnomersy]

I know why I sucked....I had a bedtime. Nuff said

[pasi]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the margin for error on AoW is actually higher than on many other fights in later expansions. It just took so long at the time due to the relative noobishness of raiding guilds at the time. A solid AoW strat will take into account the chance of warrior 1-rounding and other risks. Take a guild that had to beat things like OMM and put them into velious toons and AoW would seem like just another trivial boss.

I missed you bro. Big Qelen was on Sunday to do Sky with us.

But yeah, any guild capable of running a 8-10 cleric CHeal chain (could be done with less, but you gotta allow gaps for chugging mod rods) can keep a tank up. The top tanks are 5500(?) HP right now in Kunark. Velious spells aren't rare like Kunark ones so you're looking at having Divine Strength, Focus, and PotGlades right out the gate. That's 5800 HP without even factoring in any gear upgrades on the way to AoW. That's statue BP, vindi BP, vindi boots, Vkjor's gaunts, tormax loot, and anything outside of Kael. AoW's max should be DI*10 = 45*10 + DB=254 = 704. With flurries and riposte, the potential to be one rounded is there, but it is still uncommon and can be prepared around.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Avatar ain't shit compared to throwing an extra 30 toons at it. I have no idea how solid the TMO cleric team is, but if they are experienced at a ch chain, I don't see how AoW doesn't die. Velious gear is nice and all, but it's not required if you have a zerg with you.

facts. know them.