EverQuest Next, p99, and on

[Nuggie]

Originally Posted by jolanar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He is right though, EQ Next was never even advertised to be any of those things.

Didn't they say that if you mined too deep you would happen upon second tier monsters that destroy your shit until a raid comes along to clear them out? Or that goblinoids would grow stronger in certain areas due to lack of people contesting them? Or was I imagining all that?

[Zuranthium]

EQ Next was definitely advertised to be all of those things, with the exception of "slow burn gameplay".

How many people here remember the original development of Horizons: Empire of Istaria back in 2000? That game was set to be way, way ahead of its time and implement many unique features and dynamic content.

Does anyone have screenshots saved from that game's original graphics vehicle and promotional materials? I was on the Horizons website all the time back then, but I never saved any of it and David Allen (the creator) wasn't able to either, since the company and game was stolen away from him. Would love to see that stuff again. It was breathtaking. This article talks a bit about the races that were planned with a nice large-scale chart of them: http://www.ign.com/articles/2001/05/...res-of-istaria . I also found a some images on the internet archive from the official website - https://web.archive.org/web/20010127...ns/media.shtml

[myriverse]

Originally Posted by Thugnuts [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's 2016. We should have MMORPGS so amazing that I want to transplant my fucking brain right into the computer so that I never have to stop playing.

The opposite, imo. It's 2016, and having learned the lessons of the first decade of the 21st century, I want an MMORPG to which I don't have to devote as much time and thought. And that's a big reason why I'm on P99.

[roadmixer]

Originally Posted by myriverse [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The opposite, imo. It's 2016, and having learned the lessons of the first decade of the 21st century, I want an MMORPG to which I don't have to devote as much time and thought. And that's a big reason why I'm on P99.

And thus we see the conflict. Some want to spend insane amounts of time on a game, and some do not or can't.

No game can meet everyone's needs anymore and only was played so much before because there was no choice.

[Tankdan]

Niche market is giving it too much credit.

EQN's live streams generated like 50 viewers.

[Calthaer]

Originally Posted by roadmixer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And thus we see the conflict. Some want to spend insane amounts of time on a game, and some do not or can't.

No game can meet everyone's needs anymore and only was played so much before because there was no choice.

Gamers have grown up. What was once the province largely of younger people has become more broad. The Boomers still aren't into video games, but Gen-X and older are - and they don't have the time. For middle-aged gamers, it's quality over quantity. Give me a memorable, unique, dynamic, story-driven experience that I can consume in a session with a defined, set, schedule-able limit. EQ is and was terrible with that (e.g., "poopsocking" - the requirement that undefined, limitless time is required to consumer certain content).

I definitely recall Horizons: Empires of Istaria. Played the beta, even. David Allen was definitely a visionary but I seem to recall he didn't really have the project management skills required to pull this whole thing off. It was huge and ambitious and some features probably should have never been discussed and kept on the back-burner for later (e.g., playable dragons). It did seem to want to have many of the features of dynamic content, though - IIRC, a bunch of undead taking over the world, ruining monuments and infrastructure, players having to combine their crafting and resource-gathering skills to restore them.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by roadmixer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And thus we see the conflict. Some want to spend insane amounts of time on a game, and some do not or can't.

No game can meet everyone's needs anymore.

It's entirely possible for a single game to cater to both casual and heavy-playtime, offer various different styles of playing, and even support many forms of PvP, some of which can become popular e-sports.

I'm not sure how someone can say "I want an MMORPG where I don't have to devote as much time and thought. And that's a big reason why I'm on P99." -- The time requirement in this game is very high as compared to others. Perhaps this person means they like this game for being able to solo camp things that are on long respawns, thus they minimize the game and go do other things. Well, okay, but that's hardly playing the game if that's all you're going to do. You could do that regardless even if the game allowed for faster paced gameplay.

There's a big difference in talking about "casual vs. hardcore" than talking about "fast-food vs. enriching, immersive" gameplay. You can have a game that isn't fast-food junk while still catering part of it to casual gamers. For example, you could easily reduce downtime in EQ while still requiring the best group setups in order to beat the most difficult content and be the most efficient. That way anyone who logs on for an hour can feel they are doing something meaningful while they are on, in comparison to just "looking for healer". Random groups could form and be at least semi-effective with whatever they pick up.

Additionally, you can set the game world up better so that a wide level range of content is always within a reasonable walk. You don't need a stupid method like some portal hub and portals all over the place either, just have more interconnected zones (including interconnected dungeons that connect to above-ground zones) and place a wider range of content in the outdoor zones. You can also put a hard cap on how quickly people can level, such that nobody is rushing and instead enjoying the game experience. Those who want to play a lot can work on multiple characters or do various other things with their time, including PvP. If you set a game world up so that PvP is even required to unlock certain content and/or provides PvE rewards, then you will draw more people into that area of the game.

Originally Posted by Calthaer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I definitely recall Horizons: Empires of Istaria. Played the beta, even. David Allen was definitely a visionary but I seem to recall he didn't really have the project management skills required to pull this whole thing off.

Well the beta, and the eventual game, was nothing like it was supposed to be. The downfall of the game had much less to do with David Allen's project management and mostly to do with how investors and other people in the company literally stole the company and the project from him - http://webz.us/hz/htm/wrh.htm

[Calthaer]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well the beta, and the eventual game, was nothing like it was supposed to be. The downfall of the game had much less to do with David Allen's project management and mostly to do with how investors and other people in the company literally stole the company and the project from him - http://webz.us/hz/htm/wrh.htm

I have read that story, long ago, and unfortunately it confirms the idea that David Allen did not have the management skills to see his vision to completion. As the article admits: "If David had known a bit more about business he would have never been in this situation – lesson learned." David readily admits that he made mistakes in that narrative - the first and most critical one being how he kept on Mr. Jones after he'd lied about his salary.

Forming a team (of co-workers, of investors) is the first and most critical step in leading it, and it's unfortunate for all of us that David didn't do well in that step of making Horizons. This doesn't at all excuse the unethical behavior of those working with him - but the real problem was that they were ever working with him at all. I really wish we were here today playing the game that he had in his head rather than dreaming about what it could have been. His website makes it sound like he did things much better with his "QoL" company - makes me want to take a look at Alganon.