most underpowered class in game?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He's not wrong for his specific qualifier of normal groups. Lot of experience groups don't bother splitting at all these days. Folks who like the leveling game and spend a lot of time in that sort of grouping might thus devalue such abilities. Obviously splitting is a "little bit" more important when you're trying to pull something out of a 5-pull that, together, will kill you faster than you can cast the needed roots even if they'll all stick.

That being said, paladins definitely do use lull to get around places like sebilis and velketor on P99. I've played my own and watched other paladins pull with it for hours on end without a single fail. It surely makes that class more effective with than it would be without. Classic or not, that's the game we're logging on to. It's also not something that ranks ALL that high in my estimates of character power because between lulls and harmony it's not all that rare an ability, not to mention other methods of splitting like feign. Some means of splitting isn't really all that much less common than root itself is.

Danth

I understand that XP groups these days don't bother splitting. In a situation where groups can just pull in 5 mobs and mow them down, even root really isn't that necessary. Your group is just too good for the content. So it is a poor example, because neither spell is necessary.

Lull is necessary in harder areas where you cannot do that, and it superior to root when splitting. Both are great spells. Again, the only person arguing against any spell here is Z. He doesn't seem to like lull.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I understand that XP groups these days don't bother splitting. In a situation where groups can just pull in 5 mobs and mow them down, even root really isn't that necessary. Your group is just too good for the content. So it is a poor example, because neither spell is necessary.

Lull is necessary in harder areas where you cannot do that, and it superior to root when splitting. Both are great spells. Again, the only person arguing against any spell here is Z. He doesn't seem to like lull.

This is a really bad statement.

Just because a group can mow down mobs doesn’t mean root isn’t necessary lol. This could easily be a quick wipe without root. I’ve seen it happen plenty of times.

I have a 60 enc, root is good 95% of the time. Lull is more for niche stuff.

[Zuranthium]

Why do you respond to literally every person by ignoring what they say and inserting some strawman statement?

If you pull 5 MOBs, splitting them up with Root is great. It doesn't matter if you *could* beat them without Rooting, the fact is you will save FAR more mana by using root, as you won't need to heal all that extra damage. The aggro management function of Root (force the MOB to always hit your tank) is also very powerful.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if you can just use root for a situation it is an easy situation anyway.

Wrong, you can split many difficult camps and handle difficult adds with Root, or use the Root + camp method to move through areas. The more roots in your party, the easier it becomes too. Coordinate everyone casting root at the same time on different targets to split a dense camp.

Lull is rarely needed to split a camp. It might make things a degree easier, but rarely is it *needed*. More for dungeon soloing than other modes of gameplay.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You simply haven't lulled enough

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[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why do you respond to literally every person by ignoring what they say and inserting some strawman statement?

I am not doing that at all. You simply keep claiming "straw man" at everything you disagree with because it's easy. You need to learn what fallacies are.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you pull 5 MOBs, splitting them up with Root is great. It doesn't matter if you *could* beat them without Rooting, the fact is you will save FAR more mana by using root, as you won't need to heal all that extra damage. The aggro management function of Root (force the MOB to always hit your tank) is also very powerful.

If you can pull 5 mobs, have them beat on you, and nothing bad happens, the encounter is easy.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wrong, you can split many difficult camps and handle difficult adds with Root, or use the Root + camp method to move through areas. The more roots in your party, the easier it becomes too. Coordinate everyone casting root at the same time on different targets to split a dense camp.

If you can pull X mobs, have them beat on you, and nothing bad happens, the encounter is easy. If you can kite the mobs around while waiting for root to land, the encounter is easy. If you can root camp a mob consistently due to it having low resists, the encounter is easy.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lull is rarely needed to split a camp. It might make things a degree easier, but rarely is it *needed*. More for dungeon soloing than other modes of gameplay.

Sure, most camps in EQ are indeed easy. Lull is there for the camps that matter, and is superior to root when the encounters are not so easy. Otherwise they can both be used for the same purpose just fine.

Again, I think both spells are great. You are the one who thinks lull isn't great, which is strange.

[Jimjam]

Wizards have a great advantage in that they can port around to scrounge for buffs before they spend 40 mins kiting ... if they get potg and have a few sow potions they can go a long time before having to scrounge more buffs. It really helps the quad and is worth the time. Also you get to chat and make acquaintances doing that.

That said, in 30s I just facetank nukespammed karana gnolls for scrolls. I'd port back to qeynos and then return to NK and run back to camp. Apparently the max xp from scrolls got nerfed, so maybe this is no longer an easy / lazy way to level. I put my nuke in spell slot 1 and hit an instacast clicky item between each nuke to make slot 1 refresh faster.

[Kich867]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wizards have a great advantage in that they can port around to scrounge for buffs before they spend 40 mins kiting ... if they get potg and have a few sow potions they can go a long time before having to scrounge more buffs. It really helps the quad and is worth the time. Also you get to chat and make acquaintances doing that.

That said, in 30s I just facetank nukespammed karana gnolls for scrolls. I'd port back to qeynos and then return to NK and run back to camp. Apparently the max xp from scrolls got nerfed, so maybe this is no longer an easy / lazy way to level. I put my nuke in spell slot 1 and hit an instacast clicky item between each nuke to make slot 1 refresh faster.

That's what I've been doing so far, scroll handins, they do _certainly_ feel worse than before but idk how much worse they are. I was still seeing the xp bar slightly move per hand-in at 35 which is a hell level, so they can't be _that_ bad.

Also, are there patch notes about the quest XP thing? I remember hearing that but looked over the patch notes and didn't see it called out anywhere, unless this happened forever ago.

[Vexenu]

There are honestly no bad or underpowered classes in EQ, there are just bad classes for specific styles/preferences of play. Wizard might be objectively the "worst" class, but if you're the type of player who is endgame/raid focused but are kind of lazy and don't enjoy a lot of responsibility...congratulations, put on your robe and wizard hat (or maybe pick up a dagger - Rogue would be the second choice for such a player).

And Druids are also objectively pretty "bad", but if you're a casual player who just likes running around casually doing quests and buffing newbs and porting people... then you're not gonna be well served by an "overpowered" Enchanter.

You can get a lot of mileage out of every class. Just use them in their correct niche.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are honestly no bad or underpowered classes in EQ, there are just bad classes for specific styles/preferences of play. Wizard might be objectively the "worst" class, but if you're the type of player who is endgame/raid focused but are kind of lazy and don't enjoy a lot of responsibility...congratulations, put on your robe and wizard hat (or maybe pick up a dagger - Rogue would be the second choice for such a player).

And Druids are also objectively pretty "bad", but if you're a casual player who just likes running around casually doing quests and buffing newbs and porting people... then you're not gonna be well served by an "overpowered" Enchanter.

You can get a lot of mileage out of every class. Just use them in their correct niche.

True story. Druids and wizard get the most hate in high end groups and raids but they are convenient and powerful in their own right in certain levels of gameplay.

No class is globally worthless. Each has their own area of shine depending on level, content, scope and goal.

[w1zard]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

True story. Druids and wizard get the most hate in high end groups and raids but they are convenient and powerful in their own right in certain levels of gameplay.

No class is globally worthless. Each has their own area of shine depending on level, content, scope and goal.

Druids POTG is insanely valuable long lasting mana regeneration. Their velious BP is a free 600 mana group regrowth. That's potentially 2490*6 = 14,940 health total heal over duration across 6 people. The small sustained hp regeneration across dozens of people all adds up especially taking into account mod rods and lich/twitch mechanics.

[w1zard]

Every class has SOMETHING to bring to the table depending on the situation and objective.

That being said, many people on P99 consider classes that can kill the hardest mobs solo (esp deep in dungeons) or smallest group or can put out the most sustained DPS as the "best classes". By this measure, Wizard is probably most underpowered. All they really get is:

1) Quad kiting (druid can do about as well)
2) Ports (druid can do better except PoH/PoS)
3) TLs (especially to bind is valuable for raids)
4) Unresistable dragon/giant bane 2k dmg spell (rogues still better DPS)
5) Lures can land on raid bosses (not as valuable in velious era with >32khp)

With VP rend robe clicky they can do passable sustained DPS but good luck getting that before level 60.

Runner up is probably Ranger. If /pet attack weren't a thing then Ranger would be somewhat valuable for tracking. The mechanics of valuable outdoor targets like Quillmane are too well understood so don't need Ranger to spawn / find. They also can't harmony or SoW in dungeons so they're basically a rogue without backstab in many situations. Make great small group tanks up until early 50s in the typical outdoor crushbone -> unrest -> mistmoore -> CoM level progression though.