most underpowered class in game?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You still don't know the proper definition of fallacy.

Lull can be used consistently to get though areas and pull on P99. You haven't been playing a class with lull it seems. Roots can break early, so it isn't like you can't get bad luck with root too lol. In a dungeon where you don't need to lull due to the power of your group, you don't need much CC anyway. But not all dungeons/groups are like that.

Is it possible you haven't played P99 since roots always held for max duration? That was changed years ago, but it would make sense based on how little you seem to know. Maybe you still think roots always hold for max duration.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lull can be used consistently to get though areas and pull on P99.

It certainly can, and it is. Regardless of how the spell operated in original EQ, on P1999 people can and do stack charisma and cast it 15, 20, 25 times in a row 'till it lands without getting a crit. It's definitely a significant component of enchanter solo power in particular--regardless of charm strength, things like Khelkor (minus his four buddies) would be iffy at best solo without reliable split pulling. Sure lull does crit fail once in awhile, but I am convinced it works better here than in original. So be it. No, I'm not going to try to prove it....I'm not trying to get anything nerfed.

Danth

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You still don't know the proper definition of fallacy.

Amazing how you always ignore everything and just use statements like this. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Roots can break early, so it isn't like you can't get bad luck with root too lol. Is it possible you haven't played P99 since roots always held for max duration? Maybe you still think roots always hold for max duration.

Obviously I know they don't always hold for full duration (unless the level difference and/or resist debuff is large enough). But you can simply spam Root. With lull you only get a chance to use it before combat. Something "going wrong" with lull (either a critical resist or other adds) means the skill has lost all of its value. Whereas with root, you get to constantly reapply. Root is a much better ability, serving all the "utility" function that a group needs the majority of the time.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Amazing how you always ignore everything and just use statements like this. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]



Obviously I know they don't always hold for full duration (unless the level difference and/or resist debuff is large enough). But you can simply spam Root. With lull you only get a chance to use it before combat. Something "going wrong" with lull (either a critical resist or other adds) means the skill has lost all of its value. Whereas with root, you get to constantly reapply. Root is a much better ability.

You can spam lull too, since high CHA makes crit failure pretty minimal. And you can always root after a crit fail!

You just need to get more comfortable with lulling. Just because you don't like it, it doesn't make root better.

It's a silly argument to say "because lull can fail, it's bad", considering root can fail too.

Lull is useful even after a mob has agroed you btw. You can lull the mob and then memory blur it. Then it will reset, like the crit fail never even happened.

[Jimjam]

Pft best way to pull is to grab 7 mins worth of mobs, slap evasive as you bring them in to camp, let CC sort out the mess while you take practically no damage for 3 mins, kill the tough mobs in those 3 mins, and then clear out the weaker mobs which will still do next to no damage even without evasive and then repeat when there are like 2 mobs left in camp.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pft best way to pull is to grab 7 mins worth of mobs, slap evasive as you bring them in to camp, let CC sort out the mess while you take practically no damage for 3 mins, kill the tough mobs in those 3 mins, and then clear out the weaker mobs which will still do next to no damage even without evasive and then repeat when there are like 2 mobs left in camp.

High stress pulls are the most fun, for sure.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

High stress pulls are the most fun, for sure.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Zuranthium]

Your inability to understand concepts never ceases.

1.) Root and Lull are separate abilities. We were discussing which one is the stronger ability. If you could only pick one to have in the game, which would be stronger? Root is the winner (and that's even with Lull being buffed on p99).

2.) Memory blur is yet another ability, which few classes have. Paladins do not have it. So no, they can't use Lull like that (and you're also assuming mem blur would work first try, and the other lull attempt). Your premise is incorrect to begin with, because you can't simply lull and memory blur multiple MOBs that are already beating on you. It's inherently going to be multiple MOBs, not just one, since the failed Lull means you are pulling extra.

3.) "You can always root after critical fail" means more mana has been spent and time has been lost (probably resulting in taking more damage).

4.) "Root can fail too", NO it can't fail in the same way, because you get to re-cast it immediately. Root breaking can be a setback, but likely a correctable one, and often meaning nothing except needing to spend 30 mana to re-root. Lull failing means you've completely lost the advantage you were trying to get.

5.) I never said Lull is strictly bad on p99. Rather, it's not much needed for typical groups with the existence of Root.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your inability to understand concepts never ceases.

1.) Root and Lull are separate abilities. We were discussing which one is the stronger ability. If you could only pick one to have in the game, which would be stronger? Root is the winner (and that's even with Lull being buffed on p99).

2.) Memory blur is yet another ability, which few classes have. Paladins do not have it. So no, they can't use Lull like that (and you're also assuming mem blur would work first try, and the other lull attempt). Your premise is incorrect to begin with, because you can't simply lull and memory blur multiple MOBs that are already beating on you. It's inherently going to be multiple MOBs, not just one, since the failed Lull means you are pulling extra.

3.) "You can always root after critical fail" means more mana has been spent and time has been lost (probably resulting in taking more damage).

4.) "Root can fail too", NO it can't fail in the same way, because you get to re-cast it immediately. Root breaking can be a setback, but likely a correctable one, and often meaning nothing except needing to spend 30 mana to re-root. Lull failing means you've completely lost the advantage you were trying to get.

5.) I never said Lull is strictly bad on p99. Rather, it's not much needed for typical groups with the existence of Root.

I understand what you are saying perfectly fine. You simply haven't lulled enough, which is why you are using root as a crutch. Both are great spells. The only person making a silly argument is yourself trying to convince people lull isn't that great on P99.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I understand what you are saying perfectly fine. You simply haven't lulled enough, which is why you are using root as a crutch. Both are great spells. The only person making a silly argument is yourself trying to convince people lull isn't that great on P99.

He's not wrong for his specific qualifier of normal groups. Lot of experience groups don't bother splitting at all these days. Folks who like the leveling game and spend a lot of time in that sort of grouping might thus devalue such abilities. Obviously splitting is a "little bit" more important when you're trying to pull something out of a 5-pull that, together, will kill you faster than you can cast the needed roots even if they'll all stick.

That being said, paladins definitely do use lull to get around places like sebilis and velketor on P99. I've played my own and watched other paladins pull with it for hours on end without a single fail. It surely makes that class more effective with than it would be without. Classic or not, that's the game we're logging on to. It's also not something that ranks ALL that high in my estimates of character power because between lulls and harmony it's not all that rare an ability, not to mention other methods of splitting like feign. Some means of splitting isn't really all that much less common than root itself is.

Danth