most underpowered class in game?

[magnetaress]

Also, two, or three mages is one of the best ways to level or lock down a camp. Especially in real classic.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Zuranthium simply doesn't know what he is talking about unfortunately. He has some weird fetish with DPS that simply blinds him to other aspects of the game. He doesn't understand that increasing DPS doesn't always work, or matter.

I am done with the thread. Mages are the most underpowered when looking at overall power. Underpowered does not mean bad, or you shouldn't play them. You simply need to think about this when deciding to roll a Mage, as you will hit your ceiling earlier than level 60, and not have much to do. They are basically a DPS class due to their lack of non-DPS spells (Utility Spells), and that puts them at the bottom with the other DPS classes (Rogue and Wizard).

Nobody has been able to provide proper Mage camps at level 60 that make Mages particularly good.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am done with the thread.

Did we just win the internet?

[Danth]

Yeah. Power and speed are not the same thing; the latter is but one component of the former. If speed was everything then rank people by the average DPS they do and, Bam!, you're done. EQ doesn't always work that way. Obsessing solely over maximum potential speed ignores other aspects of character strength such as staying power, ease of use, reliability, versatility, synergy with other characters, and realistic ceiling vs. absolute ceiling. A rogue can do higher potential damage than a monk can but by any reasonable metric the monk's the stronger character overall.

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I still think rather poorly of wizards and probably rate them most underpowered, personally. It struggles to a unique degree to even accomplish its own primary role. If we disagree DSM, well, there's room in the world for that.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did we just win the internet?

The last thing I will say is this has never been about "winning" (at least, not for me). I just want to get the correct information out to new players. Unfortunately many peoples idea of "winning" in this thread is spreading skewed information due to their love for a specific class, or misunderstandings of mechanics like DPS. It isn't helping anyone. That is why I am discontinuing the thread. Objectivity has been lost, and "winning" is what people care about now, not proper information.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just want to get the correct information out to new players.

Then you should have stopped posting in here a long time ago. I will pray for the poor new souls who listen to your advice and waste days of their life doing things very inefficiently.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Zuranthium has some weird fetish with DPS that simply blinds him to other aspects of the game. He doesn't understand that increasing DPS doesn't always work, or matter.

I never said nothing but DPS is needed. You unfortunately just don't understand the mechanics and the many reiterations that have been explained to you. Despite it being factual basic math. There are no "other aspects of the game" you understand better, your videos make that abundantly clear.

Not a single time in this thread have you given any good examples to support your opinion that "utility" is some all-important thing (a term you don't understand to begin with, trying to call things like Haste "utility"). You just keep stating it over and over, and basically only showing how slowly and unoptimally you play the game. Maybe you need a whole group of CC'ers and backup healers to do group content, but this game doesn't require that. Other people will achieve far more in the same amount of played time.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody has been able to provide proper Mage camps at level 60 that make Mages particularly good.

Several were listed. But, like, you don't seem to understand chain petting. It opens up a lot of possibilities. It's crazy how you think Mages can't solo well. Granted, chain-petting is currently behaving incorrectly with aggro on p99, which sucks, but that's not how it's supposed to be. Hopefully they fix it, and other bizarre things like the Druid Immolate spell doing 0 damage for almost a year now (wtf?).

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you look at raw population numbers, it's usually Paladin or Ranger at the bottom. Wizard is usually pretty close as well. So it got me thinking about adding together the raiding AND non-raiding (e.g. leveling, farming) power levels. With this mindset, I think it might be Ranger.

Leveling the Paladin is better as a MT 50-60. For farming, a Paladin can tank well enough and with DW BP and Soulfire solo some nasty stuff. They also pair reasonably well with Ench. On the Ranger, your farming options are more using tracking and farming greens. 55+ you get kind of wrecked face tanking without some serious gear, and no one is inviting you to their HS group.

Raiding: Rangers get WS, COTP, solid DPS, and track is occasionally useful. Paladins get DA, DS, Soulfire/LoH and can tank trash better. However, WS is soo good that it's close. I think it's advantage Ranger, but not enough to offset the non-raiding aspect

I don't think it's close between the two for raiding. Tracking is more than occasionally useful, it's constantly helpful for seeing when things pop and mobilizing. Ranger is a big DPS increase to the raid with their buffs and Weaponshield is great. Nothing a Paladin does is needed. I'd rather just have another Cleric in the guild to ensure there's always a sufficient C-heal chain, especially since a guild can go for two raid targets at the same time if there are enough Clerics (and DPS, and Warriors) to support that play.

Outside of raids I'm also never like "I need a Paladin to do [xxx]". Whereas a Ranger for Tracking is something I might actually request. Paladin does do more in some groups, sure. For soloing a Ranger can level themselves faster by fear kiting animals, than a Paladin can by face tanking and having awful DPS. There are some specific things a Paladin can solo better but...why? It's better to be grouping. Ranger going for Quillmane cloaks is effectively doing something more productive with their time than a Paladin with their solo time.

The Soulfire thing in general is weird. It's a very limited ability. You can't just have that for every raid fight or go around soloing things nonstop with it. Speaking of actual classic EQ.

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think it's close between the two for raiding. Tracking is more than occasionally useful, it's constantly helpful for seeing when things pop and mobilizing. Ranger is a big DPS increase to the raid with their buffs and Weaponshield is great. Nothing a Paladin does is needed. I'd rather just have another Cleric in the guild to ensure there's always a sufficient C-heal chain, especially since a guild can go for two raid targets at the same time if there are enough Clerics (and DPS, and Warriors) to support that play.

Outside of raids I'm also never like "I need a Paladin to do [xxx]". Whereas a Ranger for Tracking is something I might actually request. Paladin does do more in some groups, sure. For soloing a Ranger can level themselves faster by fear kiting animals, than a Paladin can by face tanking and having awful DPS. There are some specific things a Paladin can solo better but...why? It's better to be grouping. Ranger going for Quillmane cloaks is effectively doing something more productive with their time than a Paladin with their solo time.

The Soulfire thing in general is weird. It's a very limited ability. You can't just have that for every raid fight or go around soloing things nonstop with it. Speaking of actual classic EQ.

In raiding, tracking is useful in the planes for getting mob counts, but when looking for specific targets, pet tracking is the norm since it can be done from zone in or other safe spot.

I do see your point on Ranger utility and general lack of necessity for Paladins (except for DS), though the Soulfire nerf has changed things a bit. My main issue with Rangers is the lack of power 50+ non-raiding. Yea, you can track and do questing and what not, but in a dungeon you're very blah. Paladins at least lull, root their way around, face tank, stun casters, etc. They also pair reasonable well with Ench, which is a point for imho. I put a lot of weight on 55+ dungeoning, so if you don't I think it's fair to disagree.

I have also played all the melees well into the 50's except Paladin, so I may be overestimating. Time to level a Paladin I guess.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did we just win the internet?

Thankfully he said he’s done with the thread so we don’t have to read his self important essay length posts

[Fammaden]

Magician most underpowered in Kunark/Velious. Thread closed.

[Muggens]

enchanter, bard, shaman and monk are OP. Mage, druid, ranger, pally, sk being mentioned here are all super strong. The only lackluster class is warrior and rogue, especially in classic. They get strong with gear and raiding, and are more or less bereft of any capabilities on their own(without a shit-ton of gear) atleast the rog can move to the group.
Sure some classes have little use in a raid but come on they have so much utility and uses in a ton of other situations(and solo).