Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Done a lot of 4-person Vaniki kills?

500+ pages later these four friends are being signed up for the death row of p99 camps…

I bet you've seen people use pocket characters in the past. 500+ pages later and people still pretend they wouldn't be used in a static grpup.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Done a lot of 4-person Vaniki kills?

500+ pages later these four friends are being signed up for the death row of p99 camps…

I’m not convinced 4 casters can do Vaniki. I’ve tanked him on my warrior and healed him on my cleric.

-Even if you could get him pulled to the zone line
-Even if you could kite him around and get him preslowed without getting rooted and killed
-Even if you could compete with all the guilds that you will be competing with
-even if you didn’t suffer a catastrophically timed charm break

Even if you succeeded in all 3 of the above without problems (and you won’t) and you managed to have the correct type of charm pets (the rats from a down deep)

I don’t think you could keep the pets alive and get vaniki dead without running out of mana. Both pets will end up Willsapper slowed in short order. Pet dps will be gutted. Cleric will be chain casting complete heal even with torpor.

If the stars and planets aligned and you did manage it all - for why? Sell loot rights? For all the hassle you would be better of farming something else.

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Troxx will you please stop denying reality on elfsim forums?

thanks

It’s funny how he thanked you lol

Sarcasm eludes him

[Keebz]

I think you gotta just chuck pets at him.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Troxx was so close to writing a normal message without any trolling. How he interpreted my post is just more evidence his brain has been twisted by his never ending lies about other posters. If you keep lying, you'll believe the lie.

I do agree that some camps may not be worth the effort. I'd say Vindi falls into that category. He's on a 9 hour respawn timer, and his items are not that expensive DKP-wise. With his respawn frequency just about any guild can get kills too. It's easier for a lot of people to farm DKP for Vindi loot, and you won't wait too long for a drop.

Vaniki loot rights would sell well I think. Vaniki has a much longer respawn timer, and a lot of people want Willsapper. It's more expensive DKP-wise too.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you gotta just chuck pets at him.

That is, I think, the only strategy that would work. Remember though that the only pets that will be effective will be deep down in there. Do you pull them (the pets) to zone in? And then pull? Try to do it all in rat city?

Vaniki is a high value target. Guilds plan for it when in window and on quakes. My warrior is parked there specifically for it. I play my cleric alt otherwise to help until I have scored one.

A 4 man caster group isn’t going to be competitive here. I don’t think 4 casters are capable of killing Vaniki. I admit I could be wrong but I won’t believe it until I see it. If it WERE possible these 4 casters would need to bind outside DN in WW to be competitive- severely hampering all other endeavors.

_________________

Massive iPhone thoughts (pardon spelling and autocorrect)

For this exercise in theoryquest I have always had, in my minds eye, the following:

What are the 4 best casters for a group that:

-have no bots (violates the purpose of this exercise)
-have no pockets (why? Violates the purpose as above)
-can use the economy but is starting from either scratch or modest twinking
-can level the most effectively 1-60
-can experience the most CONTENT from 1-60 (no limits, no restriction)
-has the most fun (least grumpy/annoying aspects)
-can farm their own spells/gear and their own coin
-can GET their important spells, or farm coin to finance it
-has room for growth at level 60 under their own muscle… spells and gear they need or want
-can (piggy-backing on the above) accomplish and acquire the most for these 4 specific casters by either killing themselves or financing upgrades beyond their capabilities

Anything that CAN be bought on the economy is fair game- Epics, MQs etc

I always considered that to be the question. Not simply which group composition can tackle the highest value or hardest trophy (raid) kill.

There is no situation when examining the totality of the above that I would ever, for one minute, recommend not having a cleric. Enchanters? OP with charm … you want at least one for charm and clarity. The other 2? No third adds more umph than a second enchanter knowing you have a 4th.

The 4th is up for debate.

Enchanter: silver star. Superior dps and extra eyes on cc/emergency. Highest dps but not much to add beyond that

Necro: gold star for all around utility and the ability to do camps that REQUIRE FD

Mage: silver star+ considering everything… gold star for excluding content requiring FD. Platinum star for only mundane content where extra necro utility not ROUTINELY helpful

Druid: gold star for all around creature comforts, mobility and utility. Less potent than the above but you already have to charms so why not? Globally? Silver star (high or low)

Wizard: silver/bronze star. Opens hate and sky but will this group strive to ever do it? Can always hire a porter otherwise .. I don’t know.

Shaman: solid silver star. They can dps but it is not good. They can heal but you probably won’t need it. They have other utility but you shouldn’t need it. Certainly not dead weight but nothing that stands it apart. In MY opinion is absolutely better than wiz. Most of the time better than druid. For the rest it just falls short. For content that is actually meaningful and requires torpor + cleric healing? Platinum star. Thus far no content has been described that fits this bill and is worth this groups time.

If DaP or external ports are not allowed- grab the Druid.
If you really want sky/hate - you have to take the wizard
If you are determined to eventually do things that NEED FD to pull - you have to take the necro

For the rest? Strong debates can be made for mage/nec/ench. I favor the mage for the type of content most people will be doing. Necro is undeniably more potent but good necros are few and far between and you probably don’t need their toolkit. Bad necros are bad. Mediocre necro? Bring a mediocre mage instead. Good necro? Well that’s a gem!

Most impressive potential on content not needing FD? Enchx3 and a cleric (assuming everyone is good).


Caveat for WW dragons: yes these characters will want it. Yes shamans can solo 7/6’s. Yes I have done this on my shaman. Yes enchanters CAN solo it. So can a cleric and ench duo it? Even more yes. Different tactics but trivial when you add a cleric to an encounter that an ench can solo. Add another ench? Exponentially easier. Add a mage or necro whose pet can be dispell charm broken? Absolutely trivial. When you bring 4 players to a situation where one can solo it - not hard. I would argue that a shaman trying to solo it the way they do AND balance the needs of a group is harder than just changing strategy altogether and playing it differently with what ya got.

Caveat for fungi king: the only hard part is the pull - which doesn’t involve the shaman really at all. If your pull team can manage the pull- cleric does not make the encounter harder than the shaman. They accomplish it differently.


————————

In summary I think that if you are allowing for hiring ports, players will be:

1. MOST CAPABLE (globally, all camps best untility): cleric ench ench necro
2. MOST EFFECTIVE (globally, doesn’t hunt that which needs FD): cleric ench ench mage
3. MOST RELAXED (globally can do it all if not best but has all): cleric ench necro mage

If hiring ports violates the rules;

1. Cleric ench necro Druid
2. Cleric ench necro Druid
3. Cleric ench necro Druid.

Druid here, if ports are otherwise not available is more important than a 2nd cleric, any mage, absolutely any shaman

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I do appreciate the civil post! Thank you. This is not sarcastic.

However, Troxx keeps claiming pocket characters are not allowed, but this is false.

He has yet to rebut this post showing the inconsistency in his logic regarding why he thinks pocket characters are restricted:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...postcount=5531

Some of his logic in his previous post is predicated on the false claim pocket characters are not allowed.

If he admits pocket characters are allowed, and he simply wants to make a list without them, that is perfectly fine.

He just shouldn't be shutting down conversations with pocket characters via a false claim.

[Penish]

yeah i got my pocket wiz, dru, shm, ench, nec, clr, mag, bard

i can make any gr00p i want now forever

[Troxx]

Shush now DSM. Nobody wants to consider play pockets but you. You only want to consider pockets so a shaman will be added (they will need it).

Be an adult and just drop the damn pockets.

[Duik]

Listen fuckers. DSM makes the rules here.

Pockets? Allowed.
Napkin math? Mandatory.
Inherant Shaman Superiority? Duh.
Being mean and trolling? DSMs mom said nopety nope nope.

Chant Necro Druid Cleric.

As an aside in a whole party wipe this pocket cleric rezzes 3 out of 4 chars. So someone logs out of a recently rezzed, logs into the pocket to rez the original rezzer? So as to not 2 box. Is this what you guys really do?
Sounds awfully convoluted and anally retentive

[Troxx]

Sorry I did not have the time to write the above dissertation and read through more of the thread. I will pick up where I left off tomorrow