Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What is “yikes” is you apparently didn’t already know that before that test you just did in game.

When you can't win with facts and logic, attack the other person. Classic Troxx.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When you can't win with facts and logic, attack the other person. Classic Troxx.

DSM is Ben shapiro confirmed

[DeathsSilkyMist]

This means the Blight Hammer is swinging 12.5 times per minute normally and the JBB Shaman actually has 7.5 swings per minute.

A Shaman with 135 DEX has 1.3 PPM. Using 7.5/12.5 swings per minute, that means they have 0.78 PPM. That is 1.56 procs over a two minute fight.

This shifts the DPS further in the JBB Shaman's favor.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3 ticks is 18 seconds. You're example is a 3 tick fight. In your example you would get a third swing after the JBB hits. The trouble is an individual 3 tick fight would either have 2 swings or 3, depending on if your auto attack timer was recovering from a previous fight or not.

I know you think you understand how the averages work, but you don't. Hopefully you can admit to that at some point.

Fine, one last attempt.
18 second fight, 8 second JBB cast, so one swing every 8 seconds. Dot is 40 DD plus 24 damage per tick.

What is the dex value that we're using, aka what does https://wiki.project1999.com/Weapon_Procs calculate for our PPM?
Delay value is "47", so that means 4.7 seconds? 60/4.7 = 12.7 swings per minute? And since we're using JBB, the actual delay is 8 seconds?

Server ticks happen at t=0, 6, 12, 18. A proc that hits at t=0 will have 40dd plus how many ticks? Does it get ticks for all of 0, 6, 12, 18? If not, which tick isn't included in the calculation?
Swings happen at t=0, t=8, t=16, right?

If a swing procs at t=16, how much damage would it do? 40dd plus 1 tick of 24?

We're calculating how much damage we expect should happen on average just after the tick that happens at 18 seconds?

If this is all correct, can you repost your calculation in this scenario?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fine, one last attempt.
18 second fight, 8 second JBB cast, so one swing every 8 seconds. Dot is 40 DD plus 24 damage per tick.

What is the dex value that we're using, aka what does https://wiki.project1999.com/Weapon_Procs calculate for our PPM?
Delay value is "47", so that means 4.7 seconds? 60/4.7 = 12.7 swings per minute? And since we're using JBB, the actual delay is 8 seconds?

Server ticks happen at t=0, 6, 12, 18. A proc that hits at t=0 will have 40dd plus how many ticks? Does it get ticks for all of 0, 6, 12, 18? If not, which tick isn't included in the calculation?
Swings happen at t=0, t=8, t=16, right?

If a swing procs at t=16, how much damage would it do? 40dd plus 1 tick of 24?

We're calculating how much damage we expect should happen on average just after the tick that happens at 18 seconds?

If this is all correct, can you repost your calculation in this scenario?

Sure!

1. 135 DEX (75 base + 60 from Mortal Deftness) = 135/170 + 0.5 = 1.3 Procs Per Minute, assuming you only auto attack.

2. Hammer swings immediately when turning auto attack on at the start of the fight, and after every JBB cast. This is 7.5/12.5 swings per minute. 7.5/12.5 = 0.6 x 1.3 = 0.78 Procs Per Minute using JBB.

3. We can use 4 server ticks if you want to include 0. This means t=0, t=6, t=12, t=18.

4. Swing is at t=0, t=8, t=16. 3 Swings total.

5. 3 swings/7.5 swings = 40% of our normal PPM. 0.78 x 0.4 = 31.2% chance to proc per 18 second fight.

6. DoT does 40 damage on hit, and 24 damage per tick.

7. Damage Set in an 18 second fight: [0 damage (no proc), 40 damage from DD (t = 0), 64 damage (t = 6), 88 damage (t = 12), 112 damage (t = 18)] / 5 = 60.8 x 0.312 = 18.97 / 18 = 1.05 DPS

9. Damage Set in a 60 second fight: [0 , 40, 64, 88, 112, 136, 160, 184, 208, 232, 256, 280] / 12 = 146.66 x 0.78 = 114.4 / 60 = 1.9 DPS.

10. Damage Set in a 132 second fight (removing 16 seconds for rooting and pet tanking at the start): [0, 0, 0, 40, 64, 88, 112, 136, 160, 184, 208, 232, 256, 280, 304, 328, 352, 376, 400, 424, 448, 472, 496] / 23 = 233 x 1.56 = 363.55 / 132 = 2.75 DPS.

The DPS value is higher in this example for the 132 second fight because we are using the correct 0.78 PPM value instead of the estimated 0.5 PPM value from previous posts.

The reason why this math works is because you have an equal chance to proc the DoT on any swing during the fight, adjusted for PPM. Remember this is also NOT including white damage, or extra Direct Damage from additional procs.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

7. Damage Set in an 18 second fight: [0 damage (no proc), 40 damage from DD (t = 0), 64 damage (t = 6), 88 damage (t = 12), 112 damage (t = 18)] / 5 = 60.8 x 0.312 = 18.97 / 18 = 1.05 DPS

Can I reword this and see if you agree?
If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=0 swing, damage is 112: 40 + three ticks of 24. Those three ticks are the t=6, 12, 18 ticks
If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=8 swing, damage is 88: 40 + two ticks of 24. Those two ticks are the 12, 18 ticks
If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=16 swing, damage is 64: 40 + one tick of 24. That is the 18 tick
If there's no proc, damage is 0.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can I reword this and see if you agree?
If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=0 swing, damage is 112: 40 + three ticks of 24. Those three ticks are the t=6, 12, 18 ticks
If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=8 swing, damage is 88: 40 + two ticks of 24. Those two ticks are the 12, 18 ticks
If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=16 swing, damage is 64: 40 + one tick of 24. That is the 18 tick
If there's no proc, damage is 0.

Sure. You didn't include the proc rate, however.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sure. You didn't include the proc rate, however.

One point of note: You're saying that in the first scenario, there's no tick at t=0?

If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=0 swing, damage is 112: 40 + three ticks of 24. Those three ticks are the t=6, 12, 18 ticks

Should it be 112 or 136? Should we include the tick at t=0?

[bcbrown]

Updated to 12.5 swings per minute - I assume we're good here now.

1.3 base rate PPM.

Base delay is 4.7 seconds, simplified to 12.5 swings per minute. At a base rate of 1.3 PPM, that means each swing is:
(1.3 Proc/minute) / (12.5 swings/minute) or 0.104 procs/swing - every swing has a 10.4% chance to proc.

Because we only swing every 8 seconds, we get 7.5 swings per minute.

Since, for the binomial distribution, E[X] = np, or the probability per event times the number of events, 10.4% * 7.5 or 0.78 procs per minute.

Now I want to move on and extend this list:

If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=0 swing, damage is 112: 40 + three ticks of 24. Those three ticks are the t=6, 12, 18 ticks
If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=8 swing, damage is 88: 40 + two ticks of 24. Those two ticks are the 12, 18 ticks
If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=16 swing, damage is 64: 40 + one tick of 24. That is the 18 tick
If there's no proc, damage is 0.

If there's two procs at t=0 and t=8, the total damage is 152: first proc provides 112, second proc adds 40dd.
If there's two procs at t=0 and t=16, the total damage is 152: first proc provides 112, second proc adds 40dd.
If there's two procs at t=8 and t=16, the total damage is 112: first proc provides 88, second proc adds 40dd.
If all three swings proc, the total damage is 192: first proc provides 112, second proc adds 40dd, third proc adds 40dd.

Those calculations all work for you?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Updated to 12.5 swings per minute - I assume we're good here now.

1.3 base rate PPM.

Base delay is 4.7 seconds, simplified to 12.5 swings per minute. At a base rate of 1.3 PPM, that means each swing is:
(1.3 Proc/minute) / (12.5 swings/minute) or 0.104 procs/swing - every swing has a 10.4% chance to proc.

Because we only swing every 8 seconds, we get 7.5 swings per minute.

Since, for the binomial distribution, E[X] = np, or the probability per event times the number of events, 10.4% * 7.5 or 0.78 procs per minute.

Now I want to move on and extend this list:

If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=0 swing, damage is 112: 40 + three ticks of 24. Those three ticks are the t=6, 12, 18 ticks
If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=8 swing, damage is 88: 40 + two ticks of 24. Those two ticks are the 12, 18 ticks
If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=16 swing, damage is 64: 40 + one tick of 24. That is the 18 tick
If there's no proc, damage is 0.

If there's two procs at t=0 and t=8, the total damage is 152: first proc provides 112, second proc adds 40dd.
If there's two procs at t=0 and t=16, the total damage is 152: first proc provides 112, second proc adds 40dd.
If there's two procs at t=8 and t=16, the total damage is 112: first proc provides 88, second proc adds 40dd.
If all three swings proc, the total damage is 192: first proc provides 112, second proc adds 40dd, third proc adds 40dd.

Those calculations all work for you?

There is no reason to calculate more than one proc during the duration the fight, because we are mostly interested in the DoT. All this does is increase the DPS values I've already provided when it does happen. Your average procs per minute is the same, regardless of whether you proc 0 times in one battle and 3 in the next. Over an infinite amount of battles it still averages out to 0.78 procs per minute.