Enchanter charm isn't classic, we all know this

[jacob54311]

Literally? You don't mean figuratively? Like you're saying you solo'd an enchanter as some kind of metaphor or something?

Kidding. Sorry.

[TripSin]

Originally Posted by jacob54311 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Literally? You don't mean figuratively? Like you're saying you solo'd an enchanter as some kind of metaphor or something?

Kidding. Sorry.

Literally! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Zuranthium]

It's going to be pretty much impossible to get concrete data about charm from back in the day. I do think it's likely, however, that it used to break at least somewhat more commonly. I remember Enchanters in their high 40's getting a lot of breaks when trying to charm level 40 mobs (the original gate guards at cities).

Charm back in the day was definitely not used to the extent, and with the widespread ease, that it is now. Enchanters usually didn't permanently charm a pet back then. They would charm something to throw into another mob, let them beat on each other, and then the group (or themself solo with a DD spell) would finish off both mobs when they got low. It wasn't until Velious era that Enchanters were more commonly using Charm for reliably longer lasting pet, which could mean 2 other factors as well - a lot more Enchanters being high 50's/60 at that point, increasing the level gap of what a low blue con mob would be, and also how high their CHA was.

Either way, Charm as it's used now would have been nerfed back then, had the game evolved quickly enough for the devs to target the problem. The argument about Necromancers on Green being nerfed from what they actually were in classic is an extremely good argument for why Enchanters should also be nerfed.

[Wurl]

Hopefully staff can cut through the noise from pixel-poisoned enchanters in this thread, and they remove the un-classic on-tick charm break bonus from CHA.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Wurl [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hopefully staff can cut through the noise from pixel-poisoned enchanters in this thread, and they remove the un-classic on-tick charm break bonus from CHA.

The data in this thread suggests charm durations are about right on p99, but that charisma is part of what is getting us there. If they nerf charisma, they'll have to buff charm directly to remain classic, and it will actually be a net buff to enchanters since they'll be charming as well as ever but without needing to gear for charisma instead of just hp, ac, and int.

[derpcake2]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The data in this thread suggests charm durations are about right on p99, but that charisma is part of what is getting us there. If they nerf charisma, they'll have to buff charm directly to remain classic, and it will actually be a net buff to enchanters since they'll be charming as well as ever but without needing to gear for charisma instead of just hp, ac, and int.

Please take your reason out of here. People are angry, children are crying, you need to consider their feels.

I hope Roegan reads all this and starts a feezls besed server.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The data in this thread suggests charm durations are about right on p99, but that charisma is part of what is getting us there. If they nerf charisma, they'll have to buff charm directly to remain classic, and it will actually be a net buff to enchanters since they'll be charming as well as ever but without needing to gear for charisma instead of just hp, ac, and int.

Yeah it's somewhat ironic that this whole thread could technically cause Charming to be made even easier if they really do remove the effect of CHA and correspondingly modify the mechanic to reflect live (which it looks like may have been accurate to P99 mechanics, but without the added burden of needing the CHA save lol). Although, I will also add that it's sort of weird that people have been having a dispute about CHA at all since the P99 Wiki Statistics page literally has a quote from Brad in the Charisma section saying that CHA affects saving rolls on certain Bard and Enchanter spells (charm in particular)...you'd think that a direct quote from the creator himself would suffice as evidence that CHA has a positive impact on Charming lol.

[derpcake2]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The data in this thread suggests charm durations are about right on p99, but that charisma is part of what is getting us there. If they nerf charisma, they'll have to buff charm directly to remain classic, and it will actually be a net buff to enchanters since they'll be charming as well as ever but without needing to gear for charisma instead of just hp, ac, and int.

The data in this thread mostly proves that people will bitch and whine about things they don't understand, with a direct correlation between ignorance and loudness.

[douglas1999]

Originally Posted by derpcake2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The data in this thread mostly proves that people will bitch and whine about things they don't understand, with a direct correlation between ignorance and loudness.

It sounds like you understand it. Care to expound? How should it be?

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Charm was just a gimmick during Vanilla. People Charming the Kelethin guards to kill the POD was about all it was used for!