GM Rule book from Kunark/ Velious - Limited CS Zones

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or we could, y'know, attempt to emulate classic, remove variance.

Nothing I've said precludes those. They're two separate issue. Regarding your comment that we remove CSR: many servers had GM enforced agreements and community agreements regarding raid scenes. Am I unequivocally suggesting that we should have GM enforced agreements? No. I am suggesting that agreements are an option be they player run, or GM enforced, and that they are undeniably classic.

Originally Posted by tiddlywinks

more people spinning conjecture on how to make the server enjoyable to the largest number of people/themselves as opposed to actually recreating a classic server.

What are you suggesting? As I mentioned, any proposed rules/agreements that I have mentioned are well within the scope of "classic" due to the varied circumstances among the many servers. Are you suggesting that I am proposing these changes because they benefit me or TMO? Without a PoG agreement TMO, or any guild for that matter, would be able to jump into PoG and destroy Tunare while the smaller guilds are just standing there holding the bag after clearing the zone for 5+ hours. This way, if she pops while they're farming smaller guilds have a guaranteed manner in which to attempt her.

It's the same in NToV. If training is allowed, NToV will be hellishly difficult, doubly so if the proper proximity aggro changes are put into place. TMO is currently the only guild that might stand a chance at downing a dragon while being trained, and even then it's a VERY iffy proposition if the trainers are half-way competent. These suggestions make it more difficult for TMO to monopolize certain content.

If you're not suggesting that my suggestions are self-interested, then please ignore the above. I am unsure of what you mean to say.

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't bother.

That's a self-fulfilling prophecy and a defeatist attitude. I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish with it, unless you mean to maintain the status quo. Which I strongly doubt you do.

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I speak for myself, but I'm calling bullshit on this. BDA, VD, and FE have all stated they were willing to work on agreements. I'm at a catch-22 where I feel its futile to bring anything to TMO while at the same time I can't trust anything TMO may bring to the table.

I don't really blame you, or anyone else for that matter, to doubt the sincerity or the motivations of the guild, but there's not much to lose by trying. The majority of TMO are reasonable people. We all know how quickly and easily certain individuals can co-opt the direction of an organization. I catch a lot of flak for saying this, but there's just a smaller section that are vehemently against agreements of any kind, and they gain traction and support as mistrust builds. It's really a negative cycle. There's also a minority that supports cooperative play to varying degrees, and they can also gain traction under the right circumstances.

Velious can be seen as a fresh start, and I think it's entirely possible for the entire server to embrace some rules and agreements before hand.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's a self-fulfilling prophecy and a defeatist attitude. I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish with it, unless you mean to maintain the status quo. Which I strongly doubt you do.

It's not a defeatist attitude - it's reality. Promises have been made and promises broken, but rarely have they ever been kept. You're being hopeful when you have no reason to be, and recent events only back the point that it's fruitless.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't really blame you, or anyone else for that matter, to doubt the sincerity or the motivations of the guild, but there's not much to lose by trying. The majority of TMO are reasonable people. We all know how quickly and easily certain individuals can co-opt the direction of an organization. I catch a lot of flak for saying this, but there's just a smaller section that are vehemently against agreements of any kind, and they gain traction and support as mistrust builds. It's really a negative cycle. There's also a minority that supports cooperative play to varying degrees, and they can also gain traction under the right circumstances.

Velious can be seen as a fresh start, and I think it's entirely possible for the entire server to embrace some rules and agreements before hand.

There's not much to gain by trying either. The reasonable majority you claim to have is also a silent/quiet majority, at least by historic actions. I'd love for Velious to be a fresh start, but this is a case of "your only as strong as your weakest link,", and TMO is the weak link in the chain of cooperation. Walk your talk, Xasten.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's not much to gain by trying either. The reasonable majority you claim to have is also a silent/quiet majority, at least by historic actions. I'd love for Velious to be a fresh start, but this is a case of "your only as strong as your weakest link,", and TMO is the weak link in the chain of cooperation. Walk your talk, Xasten.

Why should they share when they get everything as is and the only negative is the amount of tracking and batphoning, which is somewhat mitigated by the size of the guild? If I were in TMO I wouldn't want a rotation either. We have a ridiculous 11 guilds on the sky rotation. That means killing any particular target once every 2 months or more, even if we make some guilds double up. Even if they decided to take off say every other week people would just demand more.

The root problem of this server is the overcrowding at the high-end. The staff has come up with a solution that kinda sorta works for them by simply making the raid scene too obnoxious for most of the players, thus reducing the contention. Now in my opinion a solution that fucks over the vast majority of the server isn't a very good one, but the whole business just doesn't seem to be a very high priority.

[Nirgon]

The internet of today is not the internet of yesterdecade.

Easier to access, more scum, more problems

The best point made is Nilbog citing that each server on live had its, say, hundred or so truly competent (I didn't say good) EQ players

Almost the entire population here has a pretty good handle on things and isn't starry eyed and lost in the world

So you have more people in contested areas. I can't even tell you how rarely we could find a group outsie the guild/raid sect, if ever, that could do SolB efreeti. Most players here are familiar with lulling, debuffing and splitting the mobs leading up that way and you can do it.

Now, put all these people together (along with their feelings of entitlement) in non-instanced areas. Surprise! There's bullshit!




Again, don't forget. And please correct me if I'm wrong.

None of what happened matters in the true grand scheme of things unless you want to brag about being some kind of EQ legend on a server that was heavily undeveloped and for a while did not represent classic EQ very much.

It's getting pretty close. Bring your bragging rights to the big show on the finished project server.

[Nirgon]

Root of the problem is the quadruple extended Kunark time line

[pasi]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Root of the problem is the quadruple extended Kunark time line

Yes.

Although, I think that this has more to do with the amount of level 60s rather than the lack of content. Obviously even most hardcore raiders were not 60 before Velious on live. Furthermore, the issue of people (such as myself) having multiple decked out level 60 characters allows guilds to just camp fully-buffed guys on vital spawn points. This is something that is going to be done again for ST keys for the next 2-3 years.

Again, Velious brings a lot of content, but that content is also going to be dead on spawning like it is now. People are absolutely delusional in thinking that Velious is going to bring so much content that it cannot be locked down. Even mobs like Scout Charisa and Vindi are going be cutthroat.

At some point you realize that this is a far different game than live and ability to mass recruit, track, batphone, and rule-lawyer matters far more than anything else.

[Ambrotos]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Root of the problem is the quadruple extended Kunark time line

I think it had more to do with VP keys being soulbound and VP being "kept away" as punishment for a extra extended time. That just snowballed everything else, when one or two guilds should have been wiping and spending weeks on end just for VP dragons. That didn't happen, and it forced people to act like animals.

[Karafa]

Originally Posted by Ambrotos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think it had more to do with VP keys being soulbound and VP being "kept away" as punishment for a extra extended time. That just snowballed everything else, when one or two guilds should have been wiping and spending weeks on end just for VP dragons. That didn't happen, and it forced people to act like animals.

Agree. The staff are constantly blamed for the delay in VP, but the training, constant petitioning, and just overall drama was pretty absurd at that time period!

[Gadwen]

Originally Posted by Ambrotos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think it had more to do with VP keys being soulbound and VP being "kept away" as punishment for a extra extended time. That just snowballed everything else, when one or two guilds should have been wiping and spending weeks on end just for VP dragons. That didn't happen, and it forced people to act like animals.

This isn't a life and death situation here, it's a conscious decision to act like animals.