Game Mechanics: Game breaking raid issue: Sirran the Lunatic

[Nirgon]

Yes I do know the "Frozen Moses" (here's a bonus point: why does no one use the mob's actual name? It's Legionnaire Blizzardwalker, talk like a raider not a raider fan boi) is patched and fixed VERY quickly... much like Sirran.

I do strongly, strongly hope that you do not have "Frozen Moses" charmable for virtually the entirety of Velious here. What a joke that would be. I could have a 2 man Kael farm guild. Mind you, at a certain point this will jeopardize you same raiders trying to keep things easy here out of some sleeper keys (hi2u they do drop/start dropping from Statue etc).

How about I find some bugs that make PvE easier to offset the recent grouch wave against these necessary fixes? Are they received better here?

[Splorf22]

Meh dictating sirran is about the only fun thing we enchanters get to do on Sky raids. You can talk about this stuff trivializing the content but most of the raids I've seen don't charm him because when dictate wears off he'll aggro your raid and not just the enchanter.

I looked up Legionnaire Blizzardwalker and according to MQemulator he is not only charmable but hits for a max of 200.

P.S. Does anyone know when Dictate was increased to 48 seconds?

[Nirgon]

A mob that we can all agree on that was charmable and then rather quickly patched with great certainty is being used to keep Sirran charmable is the crux of my argument here. Further, we have 2 submitted cases with clear evidence that Sirran the Lunatic and the Key Master should death touch. Why classic or close to classic era raid guides or Everlore data from the way back with people agreeing and sharing stories doesn't work for some.. I'm thinking is only an effort to further the trivialization of content.

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes I do know the "Frozen Moses" (here's a bonus point: why does no one use the mob's actual name? It's Legionnaire Blizzardwalker, talk like a raider not a raider fan boi) is patched and fixed VERY quickly... much like Sirran.

?

first this raider fan boy had raided prety much content u didint . i give the name frozen msoes because i liekd it and im very funny man when i had to deal with dorks.

you know what im done in this forum just uploaded old magna charta screenshoots from solusek ro with us using sirran to kill anything in sky .

u go beyond classic because u dont like how things were back then fine .

But is how worked back then

[Nirgon]

I have been asking people if they can provide photographic evidence (screenie ftw).

I was told by someone that they recall them using Sirran to kill the Keymaster and they he did death touch NPCs during that time even.

I would imagine this was quickly fixed. As far as hard evidence goes man, the raid guide I have says he DTs. The other, that in fact uses charming as a common tactic does not list Sirran. I would think a raid guild would have at least tried an posted that.

As far as what got this changed? It seems to me a brief bug has been accepted as canon and his death touch issue is unresolved based .

[Nirgon]

Update:
From the people I've spoken with who lead raids in the classic era, this much is confirmed: You won't find patch notes on this, only the bits of evidence found stating death touch in Everlore and in the raid guide, as well as saying many mobs maybe the gang here did not know where charmable yet omitting Sirran.

Here's the break down and there's even room for this (imo) bug to make things even easier:
Sirran was charmable at one point.
He always death touched through Velious.
The Keymaster should death touch.
The Keymaster AND Sirran were charmable for the same period of time (this will REALLY make things easy..).
The mobs, when charmed, WILL death touch other NPCs: Alloria of FoH cites that they turned Sirran loose on Overseer of air. The 2 NPCs exchanged death touches, but by luck Overseer actually pulled a win when they did this!
The Keymaster also absolutely beat down raid npcs.
Charm was fixed by at least Velious, it did not exist in plane of sky any further than this.

Adding the Keymaster to Sirran's time line of being charmable is going to make things even easier here again. It's not my sole intent to make this server easier or harder (although I do hate the easier part trust me)! In fact, while the DT change would seemingly make this a "fix to having the NPC charmable", 2 enchanters could just be ready to hold down a charm on him in a worst case scenario. Having him DT other mobs, while definitely classic at some point during the classic time line is also a huge help for you. Also, if he has recently death touched and you just do a quick charm break and recharm, one enchanter should be able to hold him down.

I regret to inform you that outside from the word of the guild who spearheaded this raid and the Everlore data, there is nothing else. We dove through many screen shots and cannot in fact find any pictures of Sirran beating down the raid NPCs (being charmable) NOR can we find any of him shouting an NPC's or player's name.

I guess this is a Nilbog call based on the evidence now discovered.

I know there's quite a bit of hostility towards me for stirring the post on these bugs. I would hope you'd appreciate my efforts here and classic knowledge, still though, please feel free to come throw rotten vegetables in RNF (not here)!

Here's something else from Everlore: Level Range 60 / 63

This is also pretty much undeniable throughout the evidence I've compiled. I think this would definitely rule him out as a mob you can dictate..

Along with the reasons for charm being a problem.. same problem applies to fire giants (who are correctly immune to fear, but not charm) being charmable as we noticed on red, this comment here:

This is completely unresistable, expcept for dragons, gods, and mobs immune to magic. It will work on anything besides those that is level 58 or below.

Given that Sirran was flagged as a death touch NPC and his listed level during the Kunark time line.. this is why I made the above claims in this thread.







Up next: dispel mechanics! Nullify magic vs cancel magic vs annul magic.

[Nirgon]

Here's the patch I recall that fixes charm on Sirran and other mobs..

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20000428.html

Corrected a bug with "Song of the Sirens" that caused an unintended level-cap to affect the spell. Bards should now be able to charm everything that they once could with this spell.

This fits the time line matching what I remember. The fact that he is able to be hit with dictate here is very much incorrect and I don't see where anyone posted any evidence anywhere that dictate should land!!

Here's why you don't see it in a patch note IE SoE/Verant policy (see risk and reward):

Though it is not our policy to announce changes to individual NPCs, we did want to let you know that you will see risk/reward disparities corrected over the next several weeks.

[Nizzarr]

I havent read much of this thread -- I was guilded with the first 60 enchanter on live, we used dictate on sirran once to get the world first? overseer of air kill. It was patched the next day and he was flagged uncharmable.

my 2 cents

[Nirgon]

Here's more evidence from people who remember and it fits the bard charm being broken change:

http://www.********.org/forums/145532-post116.html

F-O-H-G-U-I-L-D <- this was referenced before.. mod pls handle if I'm being a bad boy some how

Sirran was killed...back when bard charm was fucked up ;p

Key Master shouts, 'Sirran the Lunatic!!"

I believe I have solved the puzzle. Briefly charmable by bards and does death touch!

Thank you Nizzar. He should be flagged as uncharmable asap and death touch -- both changes should apply to the Keymaster as well.

As I was on Rallos Zek, we were behind the blue servers. However, we raided plane of sky and the raids I attended had no charming of Sirran. What my raids DID have were people using the Thurgadin claw quest BFG thing to jump across islands. I will be happy to share that nugget of wisdom in my detail at the opening of Velious if anyone nicely PMs me asking [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. Just saying, trust me, they would have taken advantage of that if it existed and this was mid-end of Kunark and early Velious (hence I mention the BFG claw).

WTB Nilbog response.

[Xanthias]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This fits the time line matching what I remember. The fact that he is able to be hit with dictate here is very much incorrect and I don't see where anyone posted any evidence anywhere that dictate should land!!

Evidence previously posted shows otherwise.

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Update:

The Keymaster AND Sirran were charmable for the same period of time (this will REALLY make things easy..).

......

Here's something else from Everlore: Level Range 60 / 63

Given that Sirran was flagged as a death touch NPC and his listed level during the Kunark time line.. this is why I made the above claims in this thread.

The date of your everlore post is July 8, 2001, which is half way through Velious which is after the planar revamp.
Expansion Timeline.

I do not deny the fact he was CHANGED, during the revamp, but during Kunark he was charmable.