Where did WoW go right?

[lawll]

Originally Posted by Houdiny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You guys criticize me for not playing through WoW long enough to get the beef of it, and I can understand that. But obviously not everyone here played EQ through it's entirety either. Both games had a lot to offer.

I think the game mechanics of any raid boss in BWL, AQ and nax has a way harder learning curve then any EQ raid boss. Just because a bunch of adds spawn and need to be OT or mez doesn't make it hard when you have been doing this since classic. Blizzard put mini games into raiding and it wasn't always just about combat to win. They made raiding fun for a lot of people that's what EQ was lacking by far.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by square [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I shouldn't have to decipher the "context" (lol) on an online forum, be clear instead, because you simply look like a hater. Healing in WoW is by far more complex than EQ ever was, same with melee, same with casters. I'd rather smash buttons for a rotation any day than hit auto attack and watch a fight for an hour. I asked you to "go on and on" about those raids, you didn't. So please do. The most I remember from them was occasional AOE and fears which weren't even very common to begin with.

I also never said I was bored, part of the reason I play on P1999 is the ability to multi-task while playing (sometimes). Other games you actually need to be active 99% of the time. There's no debate about complexity, you're letting your nostalgia goggles blind you, or you simply lied about ever playing WoW. See the part I bolded? You mentioned how encounters weren't complex. WoW (and some other games honestly) made more complex encounters, that would be an improvement, aka Where WoW went right! GEE WIZ!

Lets compare 2 expansions of WoW to 2 expansions of EQ then...would that be fair? Its not about comparison in that sense really. If you'd take a moment to stop foaming at the mouth with hate, you'd see the thread title. We were talking about improvements made from all MMOs not just EQ either. If you think live EQ has nearly the complexity of raids compared to even just the burning crusade expansion of WoW, you simply didn't play.

You're also still trying to make the point that "OMG EQ HAD THIS STUFF THE SAME TIME WOW DID!" No one here is saying WoW was the first MMO to come up with everything, yet you seem to look for anything possible to defend EQ and bash WoW for no good reason.

We're on a classic EQ forum for god's sake. We're all here for a reason, you don't need to put up a shield and defend your beloved game. You're allowed to enjoy more than one game, you're allowed to hate some, but this topic was never about bashing WoW, but people like you always feel the need to hate on what is/was popular. I bet you still use your zach morris cell phone too since APPLE AND IPHONES SUCK RARAHRAHRAHH. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This, pretty much. Stop being merciless fanboys for EQ and admit that WoW simply superceded it in nearly every single area and improved upon everything EQ had.

All of us play on p99 as a niche interest - not because millions of people share that interest. Yes, EQ was the original big-time 3d mmo. But that doesn't mean its successor didn't dominate it in almost every single way.

[Houdiny]

Just to break it down for you and reiterate my point even further. EQ's second expansion was Scars of Velious, release date: Dec 5th 2000. WoW's second expansion was Wrath of the Lich King, release date: Nov 13, 2008.

8 years of difference between the two's first two expansion release date and you guys are comparing raid content? Come on now. It's not comparable. Not even close.

Hell WoW didn't even release it's original game until 2004. 4 years after EQ launched it's second expansion. By the time WoW released EQ was already on Omens of War expansion. According the MMO timelines and google searches.

So of course WoW's 2nd expansion is going to be lightyears ahead of EQ's second expansion.

To put it in perspective by the time WoW released the Wrath of the Lich king, EQ was already on Seeds of Destruction expansion, probably it's 25th or better. If you played in that expansion and are able to compare the two then please do. Otherwise it's apples and oranges fellas.

And I am not here to say EQ was better than WoW. What I am saying is people who call WoW's raiding experience more challenging or better, obviously didn't play EQ through it's entirety and therefor doesn't really have a clue about it.

[Litharack_Necro]

Pretty to look at. That's about all imo. Game was total fail (imo.)

[Xanthias]

Another thing that WoW did that helped it's player base, it had a card format of the game.
That brought in more money from people who didn't necessarily play the PC game or it attracted those who enjoyed card based games to the PC version.

[falkun]

Most people on a classic emu server are going to compare classic raiding with classic raiding. WoW's original group and raid content was far more complex than the initial offerings from EQ.

Hell, Shadowfang Keeps final boss did more casting than melee - a unheard of concept for raid bosses in EQ.

[bizzum]

Anybody else think it's wierd that Blizzard hasn't tried opening a few progression servers? I always thought they could milk their franchise a bit more with those.

[bizzum]

Originally Posted by square [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree, I remember seeing tons of posts on the WoW forums in the past about it too over the years. A lot of the expansion events were actually pretty enjoyable too for the most part. They did make comments about it though at one point, I'm sure you could find it with a little google work, I might look later and respond with some links if I find any info. If I remember it had to do with engine changes and whatnot, may be wrong though.

I also find it interesting that even with engine / content changes, they say it would be hard to do or they can't? If I was making shit and changing it significantly, I'd keep a backup or an archive of the old ones even if there was no initial plan to use it. Maybe I'm just a bit more meticulous but I doubt keeping that info on a drive is very expensive.

[Atmas]

Originally Posted by bizzum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I also find it interesting that even with engine / content changes, they say it would be hard to do or they can't? If I was making shit and changing it significantly, I'd keep a backup or an archive of the old ones even if there was no initial plan to use it. Maybe I'm just a bit more meticulous but I doubt keeping that info on a drive is very expensive.

The problem with Sony was that their "progression" servers were just content locked servers. People wanted the game as it was back when they started playing but they got.. well you guys all know this. I think Blizz hasn't done a "progression" server because donig so kind of admits that you may have peaked.

Also there are technical challenges involved if they don't want to go just the SoE content locked path. I'm certain they have the old files but it isn't just as simple as running an older version fo the server. Users will need to have compatible clients and everything will be exposed to the same exploits from years back. The game map isn't even the same as numerous areas had to be re-designed for Cataclysm because when the game was made a lot of the areas were not intended to be seen or accessible from flying mounts.

None of this means it isn't doable, just there is more complexity then running old server code.

[bizzum]

Originally Posted by Atmas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem with Sony was that their "progression" servers were just content locked servers. People wanted the game as it was back when they started playing but they got.. well you guys all know this. I think Blizz hasn't done a "progression" server because donig so kind of admits that you may have peaked.

Also there are technical challenges involved if they don't want to go just the SoE content locked path. I'm certain they have the old files but it isn't just as simple as running an older version fo the server. Users will need to have compatible clients and everything will be exposed to the same exploits from years back. The game map isn't even the same as numerous areas had to be re-designed for Cataclysm because when the game was made a lot of the areas were not intended to be seen or accessible from flying mounts.

None of this means it isn't doable, just there is more complexity then running old server code.

Exactly what I said was wrong with Sony's. It just needs to be marketed and ran as a seperate entity--whether that means a new install and a seperate exectuable or some other form to accomplish that its fine. I wasn't suggesting it wasn't as easy as just opening a new server and saying run wild, but if the data is there its completely possible. All I was suggesting is to not do it how Sony did, which was exactly that with a few content locks like you said.