Trakanon Rotation

[Fazlazen]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

heh, rotations.

i generally don't comment on blue server issues. but i have a question for you guys;

EQ is a competitive mmo based around the downing of mobs. downing the mob provides a sense of accomplishment provided only because of the competition from other guilds for those same contested mobs. i seriously doubt any of you feel like you did big things by downing a mob that is 12 years old, and has "how to kill" strats posted everywhere on the web, all the while there is absolutely no competition for the mob it self.

and so my question is this; if u remove the competition to downing a mob, what sense of accomplishment does killing the mob give you?

AMEN, my point exactly.

[iNteg]

Blah blah blah.

[Metallikus]

Trakanon scorecard for February:

VD: 5
IB: 3
TMO: 3

TMO has 1 legit VP kill contested from what they say (IB was there to thwart, VD stayed out of VP because of respect that we did not have enough keyed to compete back then.)

TMO VP dragon kills besides that one have been completely uncontested.

VD entered VP to kill a dragon while IB and TMO were serving suspensions. TMO entered VP to grief while suspended. VD left, no big deal. The next day we find out TMO had been secretly unsuspended and that you killed VP dragons uncontested. IB says enough BS is enough and splits. VD has prevented TMO from accomplishing anything in VP since then.

The fact is, when contested, its hard for anyone to kill a dragon in a non CSR zone.

Uncontested, VD can kill every dragon in VP. Contested, none.
Uncontested, TMO can kill every dragon in VP. Contested by IB, one. Contested by VD, none.

[Splorf22]

One last thing so I can complete the dreaded triple post. I'm a pretty casual guy. I feel less and less like even logging in to the raid scene right now. But in general Vesica Dei has morphed into a serious raid guild. I'm just eyeballing our raid attendance tracker, but we have ~45 people in the black, i.e. 35% raid attendance, and we just got about 10 more people from IB. We have over 50 people with Veeshan's Peak keys now. For better or worse, VD is not a casual raid guild any more.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Lanuven [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sad thing is this rotation will never even be considered seriously as long as VD is pulling their crap membluring dragons that have already been engaged. FTE is FTE. Leave it alone if someone else is fighting it.

As far as that goes, why hasnt a GM intervened in this exploit ? This is clearly not classic and is still being used to grief other guilds ?

.

I'm impressed with the capability that VD has shown, as a raid force, in the last few months on their own, but suddenly becoming the #2 guild on the server due to a departure of one of the top raiding guilds does not automatically entitle a guild to a rotation. I understand that VD has accomplished all of the raids outside of VP on their own and from being aligned with TR/IB, as a joint raid force. I do not doubt VD would be #2 now even without the prior alliance. VD has legitimately gathered forces faster and beaten TMO to several targets or happened to be in the right place at the right time, just like TMO and IB in the past, when multiple targets pop in quick succession. Such is raiding life on a non-instanced, variance-timer server.

Rotations come about when two guilds legitimately are capable of engaging and downing a raid target/zone and the time/energy investment becomes too much to keep the heightened state of competition sustained indefinitely, ala camping at Trakanon ledge every 3 days.

Without proving to the server or themselves that VD is capable of killing a dragon in VP through legitimate competition or even simply asking "hey we have x number of keys and we would like to try a VP dragon please give us one shot uncontested to see if we can stand up to it and maybe we can talk later about a rotation". From the previous posts above, VD essentially demands(ed) a VP rotation be installed with no grounds on which to base their ability to handle such a target besides having acquired x number of VP keys. When met with the lack of the response VD desired, VD set forth and implemented a plan to massively grief and bully the opposing guild into accepting a rotation by way of using at best a disreputable tactic, or most likely what will be deemed an exploit/broken game mechanic. (I'm not commenting one way or the other about the Talendor incident, I was not at that particular raid and only know that the GMs have since said that all past raid petitions that were unanswered were dismissed and everyone to move forward and start fresh.)

There are several VD members in this thread that have asked what TMO will do to make the server a better place, when they should be asking that question of themselves before asking anyone else.

VD had a chance to set a new tone for the raid scene of P99 with the upsetting of the end game balance by the departure of IB, but instead has resorted to "if I beat you up enough, then you'll like me attitude". Two weeks ago when the top two guilds at the time were on vacation, VD instead of sharing dragons and bosses, like they now request, went and claimed all of them for themselves and in the process upsetting the other 3 raiding guilds through potentially questionable raid situations.

If you want respect, you first need to give respect.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

heh, rotations.

i generally don't comment on blue server issues. but i have a question for you guys;

EQ is a competitive mmo based around the downing of mobs. downing the mob provides a sense of accomplishment provided only because of the competition from other guilds for those same contested mobs. i seriously doubt any of you feel like you did big things by downing a mob that is 12 years old, and has "how to kill" strats posted everywhere on the web, all the while there is absolutely no competition for the mob it self.

and so my question is this; if u remove the competition to downing a mob, what sense of accomplishment does killing the mob give you?

For me, its the fact that I didn't do it on Live. If I wanted a PVP game, I wouldn't come back to a notoriously PVE game.

With that said, the competition is fun, especially on some mobs. I thoroughly enjoy fighting TMO for CT when the zone fully repops. Gore last week was also enjoyable. However, VP is an entirely different animal. The training that is prevented in other zones by server rules are freely allowed in VP. If VP was managed with the same PVE rules that exist for the rest of the server, I'd be fine with competition. But griefing and competition are not the same in my opinion. If you grief, expect to be griefed, but I'll respond to competition with competition.

[Frieza_Prexus]

To your members crying in RNF, the solution has been presented in this post. You also have members that have stated they want to better the server. If those truly are the goals of TMO, then you will agree to the rotation. If your first duties are to your members, then stop talking out of both sides of your mouth stating that you want to be a better role model for the server while also stating you are anti-rotation.

Rotations work in some instances. Others, not so much. Otherwise, everything would be on rotation. I came from a server that had this exact situation, and it ended poorly to say the least (if anyone here is from Prexus I'd be happy to discuss this via PM if you really feel the need, but not here. I've made my point). Somethings are morally commendable, but not morally obligatory. It seems to me that some are insinuating that we have an affirmative duty to rotate. Ragefire is on rotation for obvious reasons. It is a clickfest nightmare. VP was rotated for obvious reasons. Trak, the same.

All 3 rotated targets were done because the guilds involved felt it was worth a rotation to save the headache and time involved in socking/downing those targets. Make no mistake, these targets are mostly rotated because it is economically efficient for it to be done. Sure, being "good guys" can play into it. However, a guild's first duty is to its members. Most players enjoy fair competition, and rotations deny that to an extent. Some enjoy rotated content. It looks like we're at an impasse. How to proceed? That's a difficult question, but I suspect the answer lies in what the majority on the raid scene want, and that appears to be fair and open competition.

I suspect that if VD came out and said, OK no blurring mobs, (maybe) no training, we just want a chance to fight for the mobs in VP FTE, that TMO would respect that. Note, I did not say, TMO would give UP the mobs, but we'd respect that I think.

Once it becomes apparent that VD is capable of downing VP dragons with roughly 50% regularity, I suspect a rotation would be established in fairly short order. I suspect most players on BOTH sides would be completely willing to just set everything aside and say: here are some good rules, let's work it out.

VD obviously wants a rotation right now because it's better than what they have. TMO does not, because it is worse than what they have. Right or wrong, justified or not, TMO obviously sees the blurring as flat out malicious. I'm sure VD, in turn, sees some of TMO's actions in the same light.

When people are super pissed off at each other, logical & efficient negotiations tend to (spoiler): not happen.

TMO and VD both have duties to their members. Those duties come first. Instead of forcing the square peg into a round hole, let's make the duties of both guilds align. Let's compete fairly (according to whatever rules are established between us) and when VD takes the dragons with regular frequency, I'm sure TMO would be more than willing to sit down.

[Maze513]

I dont always use Macro Quest
But when I do
I use it in VP
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[Ele]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Who gave TMO the authority to decide who deserves what?

We're punching a bully in the mouth. The crybabies are the ones that got punched in the mouth and ran to RNF to cry about it.

What gave VD the right to demand a rotation on dragons they haven't even attempted, much less killed? I don't doubt your abilities, but the means you are using to go about securing a rotation are dubious and unjustified.

[Alkorin]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What gave VD the right to demand a rotation on dragons they haven't even attempted, much less killed? I don't doubt your abilities, but the means you are using to go about securing a rotation are dubious and unjustified.

They say above that they can kill every dragon in VP if uncontested. Why not give them the chance?

Let them put their money where their mouths are. If they fail to clear VP within some time frame, they should agree to leave you all alone while you do so, until they are capable of competing.