Some thoughts about cheating on P1999

[Vohl]

Thanks for the post, mala. I'm not sure about how Quillmane has a big impact, but server attitude is a different matter. I care about that as well.

Originally Posted by Herky [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This forum community sure seems full of know-it-all jerks.

How are people being jerks?

[Vohl]

@Extunarian: Quoting "not as bad as we think it is," is misleading. I don't think I ever said that. I'm hoping to talk about what is bad or otherwise about cheating as well as get some insight into why the backlash is as nasty as it seems.

I don't feel particularly outraged, especially in light of the measures taken by GMs. Quite a few very vocal posters here clearly think otherwise.

[Atmas]

Not really sure why people are jumping all over Vohl. A simple "Hey you can view the source code for the Emu project" would suffice. Wanting to know how something works doesn't constitute as intent to do it.

Plenty of people watch CSI and probably aren't thinking about how they could use the information to get away with murdering someone.

On the other topic of this thread, other people cheating impacts you plenty wether or not you realize it. It may be something miniscule like not having a chance to get Quillimane cloak or some other item because they can lock it down. Or it may be another group dominating the xp in a zone/area because they are aware of all mob spawns or getting additional benefits in combat. It may be it's harder for you to buy gear because prices get inflated by the plat they generate. Or it may even be you spent extra hours trying to obtain an item (like a seb key) because someone else warped/ran to mob and killed it.

It may not be as obvious as in PvP where someone warps on to your face but since we are playing in the same enviornment and vying for the same resources it definitely can have an impact on you.

[mala]

Mullling over the whole morality thing, some jerk ran a stop sign in front of me this morning. I had two choices - to brake and let them pass, or to pull in front of them and get hit. I had a few choice things to say as well.

Why would someone who broke the rules and got away with it in the big blue zone bug me? I suppose the consequences for his actions are quite a bit more concrete. Had I been less alert and proceeded when my turn at the 4-way came around, my care would be damaged and I might be hurt. This person also poses a genuine threat to others in the area. Children often ride bikes across this intersection.

Although i can see slight parallels in someone disobeying traffic laws and someone cheating a server, comparing the two is ridiculous. When driving a car i know that i can speed and the repercussions of which would be a ticket, we all know how a car and traffic laws work. Im sure a fair amount of the people that play here had no idea these hacks even existed (i didnt), and especially to the extent of what they can do. Now if i saw someone flying down the road going 400mph in a honda civic id prolly have some questions. THAT would be comparable to seeing a cleric on here tracking down mobs in SK, people clearly bending the rules of whats possible. I had no idea you could even use a tracking program, so where would i begin to ask?
Breaking the rules is one thing, using a 3rd party program to completely twist the physics of the world is a complete other crock of shit.

And using the traffic ticket scenario once more, i think these people caught cheating should be banned outright, just as the disclaimer in the rules states. If im caught running down a pedestrian, im gunna goto jail, regardless of how many other drivers are mowing down pedestrians with me at the time.

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by mala [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

people clearly bending the rules of whats possible. I had no idea you could even use a tracking program, so where would i begin to ask?

Instead of trying to track the mob, you must first realize that there is no mob to track.

Don't take the red pill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Vohl]

The Hackney riots come to mind.

A lot of people did a lot of illegal things - looting, vandalism, assault and worse. British parliament had a fairly spirited discussion about how the legal precedings would be handled. Among other things, there was the question of whether or not the event qualified as civil unrest due to a failure of the state.

It apparently did not; parliament decided on regular law enforcement. Still, it's a recent example of the scope of a problem calling for the consideration of exceptional enforcement.

I'm a bit surprised that cheating is seen as worse in context than cutting someone off in traffic. The potential consequences seem worse by far to me when considering what a half ton chunk of metal could do.

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Vohl [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm a bit surprised that cheating is seen as worse in context than cutting someone off in traffic. The potential consequences seem worse by far to me when considering what a half ton chunk of metal could do.

Well we're talking in the server-specific section on an emulated Everquest-related server board, not an automotive forum.

Serious business only applies in those areas where serious business should be applied.

[superapan]

Most MQ-users didn't wanna get caught, and thus only used the "safe" plugins, mostly being the map. The fungi-duping is just nonsense.

[Extunarian]

Originally Posted by Vohl [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm a bit surprised that cheating is seen as worse in context than cutting someone off in traffic. The potential consequences seem worse by far to me when considering what a half ton chunk of metal could do.

The consequences are certainly worse, it's the motive that people dislike. It takes half a second to cut someone off. Cheating takes effort and preparation especially if you don't want to be caught.

I liken it to someone cheating in one of those gigantic 100-level college courses. Does it hurt me? No, assuming a curve isn't being used, but it is still unethical, and it would still make me furious that someone was getting the same credit that I was without putting in the same amount of work.

[Vohl]

The motive seems to be there in either case, but I see what you mean. The difference is in the preparation. "Premeditation" is the word used in court.