Bow damage formula?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by TytosOfEight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The two photos that I provided clearly demonstrate that the BFG is using 2h bonus damage. There's no other way of explaining it.

There is simply some conflicting data, so I am trying to figure that out. Either Bcbrown has some bad data for his minimum hits, or something funky is going on with the critical hit messages.

Bcbrown cannot hit for 26 minimum damage using BFG if his damage bonus was 34.

Getting some minimum hit data would resolve the issue.

[TytosOfEight]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is simply some conflicting data, so I am trying to figure that out. Either Bcbrown has some bad data for his minimum hits, or something funky is going on with the critical hit messages.

Bcbrown cannot hit for 26 minimum damage using BFG if his damage bonus was 34.

Getting some minimum hit data would resolve the issue.

You're living in fantasy land now. The crits are behaving exactly as expected.

If the 1h uses +11 damage bonus you would expect a difference between the crit and damage, at which point the damage bonus is applied, to be 11. And it is!

If the BFG uses the 2h damage bonus you would expect a difference between the crit and the damage, at which point the bonus is applied, to be 42 (50 delay at level 60 is 42 damage), which it is.

Both images show what would be expected if both damage bonuses were applied correctly.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by TytosOfEight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're living in fantasy land now. The crits are behaving exactly as expected.

If the 1h uses +11 damage bonus you would expect a difference between the crit and damage, at which one the damage bonus is applied, to be 11. And it is!

If the BFG uses the 2h damage bonus you would expect a difference between the crit and the damage, at which point the bonus is applied, to be 42 (50 at level 60 is 42 damage), which it is.

Both images show what would be expected if both damage bonuses were applied correctly.

I simply prefer to have definitive proof when there are conflicting data sets. I am not sure why asking for some minimum damage values to resolve this data conflict is "fantasy land". More data is better.

It would be good to know if Bcbrowns data has some flaws.

[TytosOfEight]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I simply prefer to have definitive proof when there are conflicting data sets. I am not sure why asking for some minimum damage values to resolve this data conflict is "fantasy land". More data is better.

It would be good to know if Bcbrowns data has some flaws.

You're right, and it was harsh of me to say "you're in fantasy land now." It came off harsher than I meant it.

If I'm honest, I would ignore Bcbrowns data, there's something else going on there. The evidence I provided is bullet proof and cannot be explained in any other way.

[TytosOfEight]

To further prove my point, I will now use an OT hammer and get a crit. It also has a 50 delay (like the BFG) and is a 2hander. If the difference between the crit and damage is exactly 42 (same as BFG) will you accept that crits are behaving correctly and are aligned perfectly with the 2h bonus table?

Here's the bonus damage table for 2handers: https://lucy.allakhazam.com/dmgbonus.html?

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by TytosOfEight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The BFG does use the 2h bonus table. Get a crit with it and look at the difference between base damage and crit damage, it's the same value as the bonus damage.

Thanks for the confirmation! I looked at some of my crits and saw the same thing, a difference of 34. So as weird as it looks, my theory is that the modal damage is damage + arrow damage + 1 + 2h damage bonus, and when it's "double dmg" it's 2*(damage + arrow damage + 1) + 2h damage bonus.

I'm going to do some testing with silver arrows. My prediction is that it'll be 20 + 8 + 1 + 34 = 63, and 2*(20 + 8 + 1) + 34 = 92.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by TytosOfEight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're right, and it was harsh of me to say "you're in fantasy land now." It came off harsher than I meant it.

If I'm honest, I would ignore Bcbrowns data, there's something else going on there. The evidence I provided is bullet proof and cannot be explained in any other way.

No worries! Don't get me wrong, your screenshots are very convincing evidence due to them matching the damage tables correctly. I wasn't trying to belittle your evidence. I apologize if it seems that way.

I agree that Bcbrown's data seems odd. 23 * 2 + 34 = 80 damage for the non-double damage values. But he was getting mostly 82's. His double damages should be 23 * 4 + 34 = 126, but he doesn't have that many 126 damage hits.

He needs to post his raw data. He doesn't seem to be organizing and graphing it correctly.

[TytosOfEight]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No worries! Don't get me wrong, your screenshots are very convincing evidence due to them matching the damage tables correctly. I wasn't trying to belittle your evidence. I apologize if it seems that way.

I agree that Bcbrown's data seems odd. 23 * 2 + 34 = 80 damage for the non-double damage values. But he was getting mostly 82's. His double damages should be 23 * 4 + 34 = 126, but he doesn't have that many 126 damage hits.

He needs to post his raw data. He doesn't seem to be organizing and graphing it correctly.

As expected, a crit of 69 and damage of 111 with OT hammer, which is a +42 damage with a 50 delay 2h.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He needs to post his raw data. He doesn't seem to be organizing and graphing it correctly.

As I said,

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The data was a little messy because I sometimes pulled with a bow, and since when fleeing I don't get the doubled damage.

Interested in making a prediction for the modal values for +8 arrows? I'm going to be fighting Stonebrunt animals.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by TytosOfEight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As expected, a crit of 69 and damage of 111 with OT hammer, which is a +42 damage with a 50 delay 2h.

Thanks for doing the experiment! The order of operations in the EQEMU does crits before adding the damage bonus, so this makes sense. The message seems bugged on P99 then. In the EQEMU code it looks like the crit message includes the damage bonus already.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Interested in making a prediction for the modal values for +8 arrows? I'm going to be fighting Stonebrunt animals.

I'd prefer to just get the raw data. There's no reason to hide it and act this way. We are just trying to solve the problem. Making things more difficult isn't helping anyone. Please get a consistent data set with easily discernable damage values that are marked as double damage or not double damage.