Claw of Lightning or Rogue Epic for offhand?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is not what parses from end game encounters reflect at all. Your calculator is wrong. Even Thornstinger (12/19) parses even with Ragebringer (15/25) against red con targets like vindi/aow. DPS against junk targets is insignificant. Fix your shit or quit bringing it up.

You missed the part where I said those numbers were without backstab double attacks. Remember that this is without duelist as well.

Also there is a range of DPS values you can get on an individual parse. I am showing the average DPS over 75 parses.

With backstab double attacks, Fang Primary + Ragebringer secondary is doing 96 DPS against a 60+ raid mob with 400 AC and 200 AGI. The range of possible DPS values in a single parse is from 90 DPS to 105 DPS without duelist. Also remember that to get a precise parse equivalent number-wise, you need the same AC value as the mob on P99.

It would be great if you provided some parses.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You missed the part where I said those numbers were without backstab double attacks.

You said "Here is Ragebringer and Fang with backstab double attack"

But you'll need to do different AC parses anyway. Try at 550 and 900 AC.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You said "Here is Ragebringer and Fang with backstab double attack"

You are correct, I meant to say without dual wield. My interpretation of his comment is he thinks the DPS was too low, but obviously Rogues don't parse without offhand weapons. Those parses were without dual wield.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But you'll need to do different AC parses anyway. Try at 550 and 900 AC.

I'd need a specific mob parse (ideally a set of parses) so we could determine the AC. Here is a simple example using data from another poster:

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I promised to do more testing and may revisit this in a new thread comparing the Meljeldin to the BoF+Claw. It ended up being a pain proccing Avatar before every parse but at least I feel the test was as accurate as could be with roughly 60,000 hps (10x shady kills) with each setup.

PS: sorry for the formatting. Also, I didn’t use the BoF since I would have to edit out the 100dd as it would skew the testing. This NPC has Dain-like mitigation.

Offhand Test: Swiftwind vs Claw
Shady Swashbuckler, level 45 npc, 6k hps, max hit 114
Snared to start fight, dark cloak of sky + Yeli gloves (91% self haste)
When fleeing would face npc so not to bypass npc's defensive skills

Silver Whip of Rage + Swiftwind + CoTP + SoN + Avatar. Max STR, 1489 attack

Fight Time DPS Hits Max Hit Average Hit
Shady 1 130 46 241 65 24
Shady 2 139 43 263 68 22
Shady 3 128 46 248 68 24
Shady 4 127 47 250 68 24
Shady 5 137 43 269 68 22
Shady 6 118 51 253 68 23
Shady 7 112 53 234 68 25
Shady 8 137 44 274 68 22
Shady 9 122 49 259 65 23
Shady 10 129 46 251 67 23
Shady Set 1279 47 2542 68 23

Silver Whip of Rage + Claw of Lightning + CoTP + SoN + Avatar. Max STR, 1448 attack

Fight Time DPS Hits Max Hit Average Hit
Shady 1 114 52 245 65 24
Shady 2 134 45 272 65 22
Shady 3 111 54 249 65 24
Shady 4 127 47 272 60 22
Shady 5 122 49 258 65 23
Shady 6 138 43 267 62 22
Shady 7 118 50 254 65 23
Shady 8 133 45 268 65 22
Shady 9 126 47 253 63 23
Shady 9 129 46 268 65 22
Shady Set 1252 48 2606 65 23


Summary: basically 47 dps vs 48 dps, win goes to the claw.

As you can see, a top geared ranger with buffs was doing like 47 DPS to Shady Swashbuckler.

My DPS calculator shows that Shady has around 720ish AC, 150 AGI, and 200 Defense Skill (Defense caps at 200 under level 50, and Shady is 45) to get this low DPS effect.

With this same setup my DPS calculator also shows 47 DPS for the Swiftwind Offhand and 48 DPS for the Claw offhand.

[Zuranthium]

You're assuming you know exactly how AC works on p99. Better make sure, and also to be completely sure we'd need to know the actual AC of an NPC in game, which is something only devs would be able to say. Have they stated a number anywhere, for an NPC? Without having exact info, it's possible the AC of NPC's on p99 are all custom (unlikely, given the amount of work it would have taken to change every NPC in game, although they've definitely made custom changes to certain NPC's).

But anyway, you should still run the parses at 550 and 900 AC and see what the difference is compared to the 400 AC parse you did.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're assuming you know exactly how AC works on p99. Better make sure, and also to be completely sure we'd need to know the actual AC of an NPC in game, which is something only devs would be able to say. Have they stated a number anywhere, for an NPC? Without having exact info, it's possible the AC of NPC's on p99 are all custom (unlikely, given the amount of work it would have taken to change every NPC in game, although they've definitely made custom changes to certain NPC's).

But anyway, you should still run the parses at 550 and 900 AC and see what the difference is compared to the 400 AC parse you did.

You can solve for AC without a database dump from P99. As an easy example, 100 + X = 300 is solvable. The answer is 200. When using a set of parses like Snaggle's parses, we know all of the variables already except for Mob AC. We know Warriors gain 5 Defense Skill per level, so Defense Skill would be capped at 200 at level 45 for Shady.

I already have P99 parses with multiple classes and weapon sets attacking the same mob. Using the same defensive stats for that mob, my DPS calculator matches the P99 parses. I am not sure how you can claim that is pure coincidence.

I posted these example parses in my DPS calculator thread. My code is open source too.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We know Warriors gain 5 Defense Skill per level, so Defense Skill would be capped at 200 at level 45 for Shady.

NPC's don't necessary follow the same rules applied to PC's. We know they do in many cases, but that doesn't mean it's always true.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

NPC's don't necessary follow the same rules applied to PC's. We know they do in many cases, but that doesn't mean it's always true.

As I said before:

I already have P99 parses with multiple classes and weapon sets attacking the same mob. Using the same defensive stats for that mob for all of those P99 parses, my DPS calculator matches the P99 parses. I am not sure how you can claim that is pure coincidence.

I posted these example parses in my DPS calculator thread. My code is open source too.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I already have P99 parses with multiple classes and weapon sets attacking the same mob.

So? That's one mob in game. It says nothing about the possible custom changes added to various other mobs. The point being, don't assume the stats something has because of its level.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As I said before:

I already have P99 parses with multiple classes and weapon sets attacking the same mob. Using the same defensive stats for that mob for all of those P99 parses, my DPS calculator matches the P99 parses. I am not sure how you can claim that is pure coincidence.

I posted these example parses in my DPS calculator thread. My code is open source too.

I just re-skimmed that thread and didn't see these parses with "multiple classes and weapon sets". It might be helpful in convincing the sceptics (like me) if you collected all your verification/validation parses into a single post in that thread.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So? That's one mob in game. It says nothing about the possible custom changes added to various other mobs. The point being, don't assume the stats something has because of its level.

The point is I have proven that I can find the defensive values like AC for mobs using my DPS calculator.

Feel free to provide a set of parses like Snaggles for a mob you think is too custom for my calculator.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just re-skimmed that thread and didn't see these parses with "multiple classes and weapon sets". It might be helpful in convincing the sceptics (like me) if you collected all your verification/validation parses into a single post in that thread.

Its linked in the post in my signature. You didn't read that thread very well the first time either, hence your faulty AC values for a level 45 mob. As I keep telling you, you need to do more than skim.