DPS: Monk vs. Warrior vs. Rogue vs. Ranger

[Toxigen]

no amount of clerics save a 1 rounder

you are the most dense piece of wall-licking-raider-garbage ive ever had the displeasure of reading here

you're a prime example of why it was terrible when freedom had to absorb azure guard

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

no amount of clerics save a 1 rounder

you are the most dense piece of wall-licking-raider-garbage ive ever had the displeasure of reading here

you're a prime example of why it was terrible when freedom had to absorb azure guard

Cloth casters can get +4200 HP from HP items, 255 STA, FoS, Aego, and Divine Strength. This doesn't include their base HP, which is at least 500. This is a minimum of 4700 HP. They can survive one round of a 1154 quad attack, which is 4616 HP. With enough Clerics in a chain, you can land CH's multiple times per second.

I am not saying it would be easy, or recommended. You can say it isn't practical to do this. But it's incorrect to claim only Warriors can tank AoW. It's also not relevant to Warrior DPS, or why damage shield damage is not included in a Warrior's DPS.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you're a prime example of why it was terrible when freedom had to absorb azure guard

It’s been a while since I’ve been played a warrior on a tank list for AoW. Please refresh my memory, doesn’t it aggressively flurry?

Even going for roundly cheals I recall running defensive was key to surviving rounds/flurries/ripostes?

DSM’s post makes AOW sound far easier than I recall.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s been a while since I’ve been played a warrior on a tank list for AoW. Please refresh my memory, doesn’t it aggressively flurry?

Even going for roundly cheals I recall running defensive was key to surviving rounds/flurries/ripostes?

DSM’s post makes AOW sound far easier than I recall.

Yes, AoW can flurry. My logs show he can hit up to 7 or 8 times in one second on a single target. However, logs only show seconds as the smallest increment. They don't show if a mob attacks, pauses, and then attacks again within that second.

From my memory, he can only do 4 attacks simultaneously at a time. An 8 hit attack in one second is not doing all 8 hits simultaneously, it's two sets of four attacks. This means a CH chain going fast enough could save you inbetween attacks as long as you can survive 4600 damage per attack set. This is generally just impractical, as 1 second CH chains are the standard. You'd need at least double the clerics to do a 0.5 second chain.

But if someone shows that all 8 hits indeed happen simultaneously, then I would be wrong. It's been a while since I've done AoW, so I could be misremembering.

[Snaggles]

While I think sometimes people who “tank AoW” overlook minor details like the 25+ clerics or the classes giving the DS that puts them on the parse, outside charmed pets nobody is tanking AoW but warriors.

A 25+ chain instant chain is still subject to human error. Warriors especially with defensive add a safety net where the beefiest knight would be on razor thin margins even if avoiding that one-round dirt nap. They will drop more quickly and you will need a bump…so more bumps and tanks to do the same job.

A theoretical 100 cleric chain of course is sustainable forever but it just adds more chance of error. Unless you have a substantial amount of dps it’s going to be a slow fight so just more chance for error as boredom and fatigue sets in.

Plus…there is a reason why clerics universally get dkp bonuses. You can’t just pick a number and expect them to show up in droves.

Rather than push people into silly warrior roles (like AoW) I do think there is a case for more knight tank targets. If you have the clerics and the knight has 6k+ why not? It keeps things fun.

Anyways what were we saying about dps classes? Rangers are the best? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While I think sometimes people who “tank AoW” overlook minor details like the 25+ clerics or the classes giving the DS that puts them on the parse, outside charmed pets nobody is tanking AoW but warriors.

A 25+ chain instant chain is still subject to human error. Warriors especially with defensive add a safety net where the beefiest knight would be on razor thin margins even if avoiding that one-round dirt nap. They will drop more quickly and you will need a bump…so more bumps and tanks to do the same job.

A theoretical 100 cleric chain of course is sustainable forever but it just adds more chance of error. Unless you have a substantial amount of dps it’s going to be a slow fight so just more chance for error as boredom and fatigue sets in.

Plus…there is a reason why clerics universally get dkp bonuses. You can’t just pick a number and expect them to show up in droves.

Rather than push people into silly warrior roles (like AoW) I do think there is a case for more knight tank targets. If you have the clerics and the knight has 6k+ why not? It keeps things fun.

I agree with all of this. I never claimed tanking AoW with a non-Warrior was easy, or advisable.

I was simply rebutting the claim: "Warriors are the only Tank who can tank AoW, so they get to add the damage shield damage to their parse".

For the first part of the claim, in theory any class can tank AoW. This is assuming AoW can only hit four times maximum per attack (Double attack with two flurry triggers), and this is assuming you have enough Clerics. So the first part of the claim is disproven. But you are correct it would be difficult to get a 0.25 second CH chain working consistently enough. Both in terms of player count and human error.

For the second part of the claim, Tanks do not get to take backstab damage and add it to their DPS, even though backstabs are generally only possible when you have another player tanking the mob for the Rogue. Same logic applies to Damage Shields. The person casting the damage shield gets DPS credit, not the player wearing the damage shield. This disproves the second part of the claim.

[Toxigen]

k bud

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

k bud

Again, you have nothing to back up your point.

[Jimjam]

Warriors aren’t adding ds to their parse. It is baked into it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Warriors aren’t adding ds to their parse. It is baked into it.

No. The parser is simply applying the Damage Shield DPS to the wearer, because the parser doesn't know who cast the damage shield(s) on the wearer.

That is just a limitation of the parser. The parser doesn't know or care about nuance like that.